Economists Uncut

Did Something BIG Just BREAK in the GOLD Market? (Uncut) 01-31-2025

Did Something BIG Just BREAK in the GOLD Market?

That’s why Japan is buying all the gold. That’s why Russia is buying all the gold and they’re hiding it. Because when the dollar starts to collapse, they’re going to announce it to the world.

 

They’re going to announce, hey, we’ve got more gold than you. And by the way, we have all those cheap tech. And by the way, we have 72% of the world in this trade agreement.

 

And our currency come to us. And the world’s going to pivot away from the US and they’re going to go. This is the collapse scenario that we’ve all been talking about, really, since Nixon took us off the gold standard.

 

We knew it was going to happen. And while it’s on our doorstep, the next five to 10 years are going to be that collapse scenario. And how do we react to it? But I think it starts on Trump’s watch.

 

I think it starts now. Several other states have said, if we pass gold as money in Florida, they will follow suit. And this will start getting gold back into the system.

 

And that’s critically important. Gold’s rising. It had the seventh best year since 1971, last year.

 

It was like a 25.5% gain. And it was like the third best year since the financial crash in 2008, where you had 2009 and 2010. And then you had 2024 right in there, along with those gains.

 

So gold is going up. It’s a store of value. It has been for 25 years.

 

Gold has beaten the economic indices, the major indices, the S&P, the Dow. A lot of people don’t know that. It has.

 

You’re watching Capital Cosm. My name is Danny. And today’s guest is fan favorite Rob Keinz back on the show.

 

Rob, thanks so much for coming on, man. Yeah, thanks for inviting me back. Happy to be here.

 

Yeah, let’s just dive right in here, Rob. For you, what is the most topical story at the moment? Clearly, there’s so many things going on. But I want you to hone in on one specific topic that kind of captured your headspace right now.

 

Yeah, there’s a ton of stuff going on, particularly with the new administration coming in. But I think the number one story we chatted about a bit before we jumped on was the whole deep-seek of China’s open-source AI and what it’s doing to the American tech landscape and tech companies. China has just thrown a huge wrench into the American economy.

 

We saw big crashes in NVIDIA and across the tech sector on Monday. And it was basically China saying, hey, look, we can do what you do cheaper and more efficiently. And there are short-term implications and long-term implications, which we can get into.

 

Short-term is, is this the black swan that’s going to crash the US stock market? And long-term is, can the United States compete with not only China, but the BRICS nations on an open playing field right now? I’m not so sure that we can. And that has huge implications for the future of the US dollar and US debt. And what do you, I mean, clearly there’s many explanations out there.

 

But what for you sticks out as the key reason why this shocked the market? What was the driving force behind China’s unveiling of deep-seek that precipitated a trillion-dollar loss in market cap to NVIDIA? Well, I mean, basically it was a big middle finger to the US tech companies because they said, you know, for five million and using chips that you won’t export to us, you know, lesser quality chips powering the system, they built a system that’s superior. I mean, their model is more efficient, faster, and better than ours. And then you have NVIDIA and the tech companies over here getting a $500 billion deal from the US government.

 

And, you know, to do something which is not as good as what China’s already done and released open source. So it’s good. You know, the stock losses in NVIDIA are, I don’t know if they’re going to fully recover.

 

Now, there’ll be a bounce back at some point in time, but I don’t know if they’re going to fully recover. And I don’t know if the NASDAQ is going to fully recover because when you have China doing that open source, meaning the entire world can take it and say, OK, now we can play with it. It’s open.

 

That’s by definition what open source is. It’s been a lot of years in tech and open source programs are developed for the community, by the community, for the community. In this case, a lot of it is developed by China.

 

Given its community and say, hey, here’s AI and here’s a system you can all use and you don’t got to pay for it. So what does that do to OpenAI and ChatGPT, who are charging, I think, upwards of $200 a month for this platform? That model’s toast. What’s it going to do to OpenAI? What’s it going to do to all the tech companies that were developing this tech, whether it be the chips, whether it be the software, whether it be the infrastructure? It was that we were spending all this money in the United States that Trump and his administration counted on for being a major economic catalyst.

 

We announced that deal. We put that out there. And then the next day, China pops that bubble and says, oh, by the way, we have bigger, stronger, faster.

 

We’re giving it away for free. I mean, and what does that do? It just I don’t know how the tech sector recovers from that. How do you recover from that? If people come out and said, you know, I’m going to charge a thousand dollars a month for the software that you need to run your company.

 

And then the next day, somebody comes out and says, well, I’ll give you that same software, better and stronger, faster, requires less people to run. And by the way, it’s free. What does that do to that software company is not going to recover? Is NVIDIA going to recover? I don’t know if they’re going to recover.

 

Is the NASDAQ going to recover? I don’t know. This could be the black swan that starts the fall of the stock market. On my program last week, I had a couple of guys, Mel Madison and Dave Hunter, talk about what’s going on in the stock market, how it’s long in the tooth, how we’ve got problems with it and the bonds, too, which we’ll get to in a minute, but how that eventually was going to come down.

 

But what was going to cause it to come down? Well, this may have just pricked the bubble. And if this pricked the bubble, we’re talking a major potential stock collapse, not only in the tech sector, because as the as the tech stocks come out, I mean, I think we have raised some like one point three to one point. No, I’m sorry.

 

Two trillion dollars in American stock market equity in a day. Well, think about that for a moment. Did companies actually lose two trillion? No, they didn’t.

 

Stocks are a multiple or a valuation of the actual book value, you know, things like price to earnings ratio, price to books, traditional ways that you evaluate companies. OK, it’s what’s called a value investing. Well, value investing gave way for many, many years since the tech bubble in 2000 to this this system where you could value whatever you wanted.

 

And stocks just went up and they went up. Why? Because we print so many dollars. But because there was some American exceptionalism in our tech sector.

 

Well, there’s not anymore. China just basically, you know, stuck their boot in our face and said, excuse me, and said, you know what, exceptionalism? We just kicked your butt all up and down the block with what was supposed to save your economy. So those tech sector values are going to fall and that’s going to look and that’s going to cause investors to look at every stock in the United States, whether it’s on the Nasdaq or not, and say, are the rest of their stocks overvalued? In other words, what’s the valuation we gave to America’s stock market because of their tech dominance? They’re not tech dominant anymore.

 

We’re now we’re we’re in second place easily with regards to what was considered the biggest catalyst for the tech sector going in the next 20 to 50 years. So is that going to then spread to the Dow Jones and the S&P and the Russell? You know, David Hunter says he thought the collapse would happen first in the Russell because it’s a small cap and the small caps are very susceptible to capital need. They’re very susceptible to capital need.

 

They’re very susceptible to the need to move out. That is a huge black swan stock market. And in addition, we didn’t talk about this before the show.

 

I just thought about it. The carry trade with the Japanese yen is huge, huge headwinds. They just raised the rates.

 

Yeah, yeah. We got to talk about that. So really quick on the deep seek front.

 

But essentially, I like to look at it in this kind of metaphor. If I’m selling lemons and one lemonade stand takes 20 lemons to create one glass of lemonade, and all of a sudden his competitor comes down the street and is able to make lemonade with one lemon, what does that do when the other guy who’s taking 20 lemons to make one glass of lemonade figures out that he can make a glass of lemonade with only one lemon? All of a sudden, the guy who’s supplying the lemons is going to see a downdraft in demand because now there’s inefficiencies being exposed to the market. In this case, inefficiencies were exposed within the data science and AI sphere here in the United States.

 

If you can get the same product, if you can get the same model built out, except better, and I believe at one one hundredth of the cost of what it’s taken us to develop here, that’s a huge headwind against NVIDIA’s chip demand. So I just want to put that out there. Go ahead, Rob.

 

Yeah. In addition to that, I could tie this into so many angles. This is brilliant 3D chess by China because China came out and said last week that Taiwan was family and they expect to bring family, expect to bring Taiwan back in the family.

 

In other words, they’re basically saying they’re going to take Taiwan. We’ve known they wanted to do it and they basically came out and said, Taiwan’s ours. Stay away.

 

And Taiwan is where about 98% of these high quality chips are. And essentially what it’s done is economically, they may have pricked the bubble for a lot of these companies. At a time when Trump wanted to implement tariffs and bring manufacturing these chips back to the US, they just pricked the bubble for why companies would want to come back and invest in the US, that expensive system, and at the same time caused the US to be in a dilemma.

 

Do they now go spend hundreds of millions of dollars in military costs to secure Taiwan if one of the reasons why we would want Taiwan in that manufacturing come back to the US doesn’t exist because China just popped their tech bubble. This is, there is no coincidence whatsoever between China coming out last week and saying they wanted Taiwan back in the fold and then them pricking the bubble of DeepSeek at the same time. This is all coordinated.

 

It’s a brilliant move by China. And what it shows is the US is now back on their heels politically, not only financially, but politically. China knows what our weaknesses are and they’re sitting there attacking them and haven’t fired a shot.

 

They’re just hitting our industry really hard. They’re undermining some of the programs of this administration politically and haven’t fired a shot. We have this military around the world that we implement to back up trade and things like that.

 

And it’s been very beneficial for a long period of time. China’s showing they can do a lot of what the US can do simply with some words and some development and some efficiency. And who would have thought that China would be more efficient than the United States? Yeah.

 

Well, they also open source. They also open source their models too. And it’s like you said, it allows anyone to come in and contribute.

 

And so sure, you may have the best and brightest working at open AI and at Google and at Meta, but just because you’re the smartest in the room doesn’t mean you’re smarter than the room. There is a sort of like a network effect. When you open source something, it kind of gets a life of its own.

 

And China was able to do that with their AI endeavors over there. Whereas here, we closed things off. We kind of created these walled gardens at Meta, at Google, at open AI, and it stifled innovation and created inefficiencies.

 

Whereas in China, it did not. And then you also have the demographics issue as well. I mean, they do have over a billion people compared to, they have three times as many people as we do.

 

And it’s no surprise. They have a much larger percentage of their population enveloped in STEM. It’s an engineering focused society.

 

Whereas with us, we’re more litigious. We create lawyers, we create pop stars, we create culture. And so you have more people, a greater percentage of the population going into STEM and engineering.

 

And it’s an open source environment. Whereas with here, it’s all closed loop. So I think it was a multi-front reason as to why, what happened happened.

 

Yeah, it shows that American imperialist model is dead. Because if you think about coming off the British Empire into the United States Empire, we basically took their model and expanded it. And that’s a very expensive model.

 

And China is showing, hey, we can do the bricks and road initiative, 72% of the world’s economies, because of the United States imperialism. It was to combat United States imperialism. It was to combat United States hegemony and the dollar dominance.

 

And they’ve done it beautifully, kind of dovetailing into maybe one of the next topics we can talk about, Trump’s tariffs. And there’s an article out in Financial Times discussing how even Trump’s tariffs in 2016 have backfired because that spurred on, and some of the sanctions in the Biden administration against other countries as well, has spurred on the BRICS nations doing business with each other. And again, 72% of the world’s economy outside the United States and their network.

 

So three quarters of the world now is aligning sort of with each other. And it’s not that there’s this big conspiracy theory for them to do that, because they just all hate the United States. They’re doing it because the United States did it to them first.

 

And they’re basically saying, you know, as the dollar ages and as we exported all this inflation and we put all of our thousand bases or whatever it is across the world, the rest of the world’s like, we got to band together, right? We bullied them into this. This is in large part because of our doctrines and our geopolitical philosophy. And you can see this all just coming down because the rest of the world’s saying we’re or we’re going to build around you.

 

And the Financial Times came out with an article recently basically said every time Trump or anybody in the U.S. administration puts out a tariff, what that does is it causes the rest of the world to say, OK, what’s the cost of that tariff? Do we need business with the United States? No, it’s cheaper for us to go do a trade deal with someone else. There was a huge trade deal. It’s been negotiated for 25 years between Russia.

 

And a lot of the Middle East and some other European nations that just went through, they just got pushed through. And the reason it got pushed through is because they know with Trump coming in, he’s going to be the tariff boss, right? He’s going to tear people right and left. You had the whole thing with Colombia yesterday.

 

And Colombia depends on our trade more than we depend on there since you can bully a small nation like that. But you bully a bunch of small nations and they get together. And oh, by the way, you have a couple of big ones in there like China and Russia and even Brazil.

 

And all of a sudden they start banding together and they build trade outside of your network. So every time that Trump wants to pass a tariff, it pushes the rest of the world to do business elsewhere. And you can see that they’re doing it more efficiently.

 

And we’re almost at the breaking point, Danny, because if you look at the development of that trade union, the currency union, we’re talking about a gold-backed digital currency where you’re talking about contracts being done in yuan and in rubles. OK, they’ve got critical mass now. They’ve got critical mass that the United States can’t bully anybody around anymore for any length of time.

 

And so there’s going to have to be a change in the entire structure of the U.S. government, because when you look at the three-letter agencies like the CIA, you look at the State Department, you look at trade, you look at geopolitics, you look at treaties. All of it is going to come under fire in the United States, because now China just announced themselves to the world. And again, without firing a damn shot, they didn’t fire a shot.

 

And they are just embarrassing the United States right and left. They’re doing things more efficiently. You talked about STEM, you talked about their population, you talked about how hungry they are.

 

We’ve talked about their agreements, their currency agreements, talked about the trade agreements. They don’t need us as much as we need them anymore. And they have the nuclear bomb of having a bunch of our debt that at any point in time, once China feels like they can withstand their holdings of U.S. debt going down in value, they just push the nuclear option.

 

It completely collapses our bond market. The U.S. is in some sort of existential danger. And I’m not sure that the state apparatus in the U.S. gets it.

 

I mean, we saw the tech sector didn’t understand the threat. I’m not sure Wall Street understands the threat of what’s there. And I’m not sure the State Department in the U.S. understands the threat.

 

But but I think now we need to start paying attention to this very seriously. We can’t bully people like we used to anymore. We just we fight out can’t.

 

No, no, we certainly can’t. How does this play out from a, I don’t know, a relations like a more explicit relationship standpoint with the U.S. and China? Yes. And fire a single bullet.

 

But you’ve got to you’ve got to suspect that this has gotten under Trump’s skin. Trump knows what China just did. How do you think that that affects the relationship between him and Xi Jinping and the U.S. and China? I think it’s actually going to force the U.S. and China to come to some sort of agreement, because even though China is becoming more independent, they still depend on U.S. trade.

 

Now, they have shown, however, that they’re willing to fight back. China’s standing up to the bully, so to speak, and it’s kind of like we sort of need each other. And so I think at some point it’s going to lead to some sort of agreement.

 

I actually think it could lead to some sort of peace in the short term. But I also think that there’s a very bad taste in the mouth of the Chinese and specifically the communists. I think this goes beyond just trade.

 

I think. From a cultural standpoint, China does not line up with American ideals, with British ideals, with those old ideals of mercantilism and things that basically been around the world for the last few hundred years while China was going through its quiet period. I think China is the line that’s going to stand up and roar.

 

So I think in the meantime, they’re going to play nice. But China’s building a blue water navy now. That is a huge development.

 

It means they’re going to send their ships out and they can be refueled at sea. So they’re becoming maybe the threat that Japan was becoming around the time of World War II, where they they’re going to develop this big navy and they’re going to become potentially military power as well. And so China may play nice with the United States right now, but in the long term, they’re not going to.

 

China will eventually assert themselves. They’ve hinted at it with Taiwan, which the we we have trade agreements and political agreements with Taiwan. And we’ve said if China attacks Taiwan, we get into war.

 

So that would be a direct war. And China said they’re going to take Taiwan. So when does that kick off and how long does that take? How long is it before China feels like they have enough economic and geopolitical independence before they actually roll the tanks into Taiwan, just take it over? And that forces the United States to either declare war or to default basically on a trade agreement and a treaty.

 

And how does that make the United States look? That’ll be huge going forward. That is a huge potential catalyst for. And you can’t liken it to the Ukraine, Russia thing, because we’re far more dependent on China than Russia.

 

Oh, one hundred percent. Yes. That’s a hell of a hell out of China like you did Russia.

 

No, you can’t. And not only that, China has more ground troops than we do. And if you look at that, more nukes and they’re starting to develop their fifth gen fighters and they’re starting to develop stealth technology and they’re starting to develop hyper they have hypersonic.

 

So they have, you know, in terms of breadth of the military, they’re not as strong as the U.S., but they have certain things to offer them an advantage. And you saw Trump come out yesterday and say he wants to do an iron dome in the U.S. Why does Trump want a space force and now an iron dome? He realizes an existential threat from the weapons that China and Russia have. We no longer have 100 percent field dominance, total spectrum dominance, what they like to say in the military over our adversaries.

 

We don’t. They may not have as many weapons, but they got more advanced ones and they got nukes. And what really scares me is a development in the movement of that nuclear technology in Iran, the Middle East, because if that happens, then you’ve got the issues with Israel and that would pull.

 

I mean, it looks like America could be pulled into a multi-front war at some point. So Trump has got to be super careful. That administration has to be super careful because there are so many fronts at which America does not want to poke the bear.

 

And that’s what I said this week in my interviews. America does not want to poke the bear right now. We are not, we do not have that fiscal and that military dominance we once had.

 

It’s all being whittled away. At the same time, we’re dealing with massive economic issues here at home as well. When we do see this market crash that you alluded to, what position does that put the U.S. in? Does that make the U.S. a rabid wolverine backed into a corner? Could we expect to see some unpredictable actions at that point? Or why? How do you kind of game plan out that scenario? Well, it’s a mess.

 

So I want to talk a little bit about how bad that mess is and then I’ll answer. So Yellen, before she left, left what I call a sticky bomb in that she was doing yield curve control to prevent the long term Treasuries from getting out of whack. Right.

 

And so she’s messing around with the short end. It drained. Some people say she had to.

 

And she along with Powell’s cutting of interest rates last year may have saved the bond market, the Treasury market in the short term. But what happens is there’s no liquidity in the repo market. And when Bessant comes in, it’s a new I think he was just confirmed yesterday as Treasury secretary.

 

He can’t just do his long end, readdress the long end of the Treasury curve. Why does he want to do that? We’ve got to refinance six point nine trillion dollars in debt very soon in Treasuries and we’re going to do them at higher interest rates. And so you want to manage the interest rates there, because if you don’t, it just leads to more debt expense for us because we can’t pay off the debt.

 

But Bessant can’t do that. He’s got to address the short end first because of what Yellen had to do. And some people can say that Yellen and Powell were colluding because they don’t like Trump.

 

I actually saw that written in the financial media and that could be true, but they also kind of had to do what they had to do to keep things running until the next presidential election. So there were actions taken that were emergency actions and they weren’t talked about in public. But I’ve seen research from a couple of different Wall Street firms analyzing this, saying there’s a little bit of a time bomb here.

 

And the U.S. is in a bad position in its Treasury market and they’re in a very defensive position. The Treasury account, the cash amount in the Treasury bank that they can spend to help facilitate the longevity of the bond market is down like six hundred and seven billion. It’s a small chest.

 

And because Powell cut rates by three quarters of a percentage point last year, that’s a smaller we’ve got about four and a half points. So we don’t have our full arsenal in case we get into a recession. So we’re already in a defensive posture before we’ve announced an official recession.

 

And so and now you’ve got Trump coming in wanting to do his tariffs and that’s backfiring on him. You get the Chinese pricking our stock market bubble. Economically, it’s you know, it may not be one black swan.

 

We may have five or six. Right. And what it’s looking like is we’re going to have a stock market crash because these valuations can’t stand up.

 

And the liquidity in the system and the Fed balance sheet and the amount of money being printed is not enough to sustain it at this point. So we’re reaching a decision point with the debt having to be refinanced at higher levels, with us being already in 37 trillion in debt, with us running record debt, record deficits. We’ve had higher deficits so far in the first part of this year on a monthly basis than we’ve ever had in terms of what we’re spending, which means money printing right and issuance of more debt.

 

We’ve got to slow this train down without without causing a deflationary depression, without a lot of our policy tools being super effective. In other words, we’re at the end of the fiat system and the choices are going to get tougher. And I think what’s going to happen is they are going to have to make some very tough choices on that 100 plus trillion of basically undocumented liabilities for the medical programs, Medicare, all that stuff.

 

They’re going to have to make very tough choices on military spending. They’re going to have to make very tough choices on the bond market. They’re going to have to make very tough choices on how much money they print to try to keep this oncoming recession from turning into a depression, because if it turns into a depression, you’re going to have hyperinflation.

 

They will not allow a bond market collapse, because if you allow bond market collapse, here’s what happens. If you allow the bond market to collapse, America’s credit rating goes into the complete toilet and we have no policy options to deal with what’s going on in the world. That means that every trade agreement, every industry that we have will be working behind the eight ball.

 

It would be catastrophic. Our credit would be ruined for at least two decades. We would be crawling out of a very deep black hole.

 

And the U.S. doesn’t want to do it. And no administration, no Congress, no presidency will do it. They will not do it.

 

And history has shown that not only the United States, but every other nation, when they reach this bond collapse, they’re going to hyperinflate. They’re going to print that currency. So we’re about to get into an era of where you’re going to have extreme bond market problems.

 

We’re going to have to hire exorbitant interest rates to get people to buy it. The Fed’s already monetizing directly a lot of our debt. They’re becoming the biggest buyer in a lot of these treasury auctions because the foreigners don’t want it.

 

And it’s going to cause major problems in our ability to finance our government. We’re going to have to cut programs. Think about all the seniors, the 50 to 60 million seniors right now and the retiring baby boomers, which is going to swell that number that are that are that are relying on Medicaid and Social Security.

 

How do we make those decisions? And it it’s a very tough position to be in. Trump inherited a mess and it’s not Biden’s administration’s fault. It’s a fault going back to the crash of the Federal Reserve in 13 and the getting off the gold standard in 71.

 

It’s all the spending that everybody’s done that is now coming home to roost and is a major, major issue. And it’s going to collapse all of our markets over time. There’s no way out other than printing.

 

And that’s going to be a hyperinflation. It’s going to cause the dollar to crash. David Hunter says we could we could see a 50 on the DXY in the next few years as this plays out.

 

You know, as we get closer to the end of the decade on the dollar, there’ll be a collapse of like 70 percent. But he could see it because he said the dollar is going to be so weak. We’re not going to have purchasing power.

 

Now, on the flip side of that, as we get into the next decade, that offers tremendous opportunity for growth. Because think about we have a cheap dollar. What are we going to become? An exporting nation.

 

So everything that you talked about, we’re exporting culture now and we’re exporting politics. We’re exporting legalism. All that’s going to go away.

 

If you’re in those professions, you may want to think about making a change, right? Because we’re going to have to earn our way out. We’re going to have to earn our way out through manufacturing and building of industry, and that will offer a boom time at some point in the future. But we’re going to have to have the collapse first.

 

And I don’t see any way of the collapse. I do not see a way. I think the stock market has already begun its collapse.

 

The technicals were indicating that in the second half of this year, it looks like we are either going to have a 20 percent pullback across the stock market or some sort of collapse. And I don’t know if this is the big collapse, but it’s definitely going to be, you know, by end of year, we may looking at 20 percent. Declines not only in the Nasdaq, but across the stock market.

 

Gold’s going to shoot up. We’ll probably have one last big melt up because the government’s going to have to print to get us out of it. And so that will be, you know, the Minsky moment, the melt up, all that kind of stuff that you hear about in Austrian economics.

 

And then you’ll have sort of what will probably be the big the big one where because of that hyperinflation, nobody has confidence in the US dollar. They’re dumping it already. And and if you think about it fundamentally, that’s technically if you think about fundamentally, the rest of the world’s already aligning for this.

 

They know it’s the end of the American empire. That’s why China for 25 years has been developing Belt and Road. That’s why they’re developing these alternative currency arrangements.

 

That’s why China is buying all the gold. And that’s why Russia is buying all the gold. And they’re hiding it because they’re going to when the dollar starts to collapse, they’re going to announce it to the world.

 

They’re going to announce, hey, we’ve got more gold than you. And by the way, we have all those cheap tech. And by the way, we have 72 percent of the world in this trade agreement and our currency come to us and the world’s going to pivot away from the US and they’re going to go to and that.

 

And again, this is the collapse scenario that we’ve all been talking about, really, since Nixon took us off the gold standard. We knew it was going to happen. Well, it’s on our doorstep.

 

The next five to 10 years are going to be that collapse scenario. And how do we react to it? But I think it starts on Trump’s watch. I think it starts now.

 

And I think China, if they didn’t just collapse, start the long term collapse of the American stock market. They started, however, the rest of the world looking critically at our stock market and and saying, we don’t want to invest in the Americans anymore. We need to start pulling our capital back.

 

I think that’s what they start at the very least. And that’s going to lead to this deflationary collapse eventually. But I do expect at least a 20 percent pullback in most of the major indices, the Russell, the Nasdaq.

 

You know, heading into the end of this year and into next year, because I don’t I don’t see how I do not see how we maintain these valuations in light of what China’s just done. And a lot of the fact that we cannot finance our government and a lot of the fact that everybody’s saying we don’t need the United States anymore. We don’t need your debt.

 

We don’t need your dollar. And we sure as hell don’t need your tech. You mentioned a 50 DXY as a possibility.

 

Don’t you see that other currencies could also be in much worse conditions than the U.S. dollar? I mean, sure, if we start printing money like there’s no tomorrow. Other currencies are kind of already doing that, no? I mean, we’re falling, but we’re we’re falling at a lesser speed than or a lesser velocity than most of pretty much the entire world. Yeah, that actually describes what we’ve seen up to this point.

 

That’s why the dollar’s maintained some strength. Now, if you look at a long term dollar chart since 1971, it’s down not only against gold, but it’s down in DXY terms. If you look at dollar versus other currencies.

 

So it has been on this long trending downslope, even though it’s got some relative recent strength. And you’re right, because China’s had its problems a lot. You know, Europe has certainly had its problems.

 

I mean, you talk about South America having its economic problems. I mean, Russia had some economic problems there for a while, even though they’re better positioned with less debt than the United States. They had their problems.

 

Right. And a lot of them were dependent on a long time for the dominance of the dollar and them exporting their resources. Now that they’ve got realignment of global trade, they’re not dependent on that as much.

 

So there’s not as much of an underpinning of the dollars there used to be. And we know from that that 2023 World Gold Council survey where the central bank said we’re going to get the dollar under 50 percent of total world reserves, which would be the first time since it become the dominant currency of record. And that would mean that now we have a plurality of currencies to deal with.

 

And that’s where you’re going to see that the DXY trend down because the other currencies will relatively will go up. Now, you could see if we do have a worldwide deflation, which I wrote my book in 2009 with the premise that we would see worldwide deflationary collapse at some point. Yes, the other currencies could go completely bust.

 

But if you if you look at their economy, their economic agreements, and you look at the fact that they have more gold and they’re producing and they’re depending on each other, they’re going to recover faster. So the dollar will be the last to completely fall. It’ll be the last to completely recover.

 

And I think that’s a different pattern than we’ve seen since 1971, even since 1940s, when we saw the after the war and the start of American exceptionalism, what we term American exceptionalism. This is going to be an 80 year trend. Think about conjurative waves.

 

Think about the fourth turning that research at Conjurative did back at the beginning of the 1900s when he did for Russia and got him jailed. He said these go in 80 year periods. OK, well, we’re at the end of the 80 year period where it’s the fall of the U.S. system and the rise of an alternative system, alternative currencies.

 

And yes, they all go down before they go up, but we will go up later than they will. We’ve got a bigger road to collapse because the advantages we’ve had have given us so much strength that we have farther to fall. It’s kind of like if you watch wrestling and it was Yvonne Erickson against Andre the Giant, he was bigger.

 

And when they took him down, he had farther to fall. It was harder to take him down. But when he went down, I mean, it was a loud boom you could hear around the arena.

 

Right. The United States is Andre the Giant right now and we’re not invincible. And it’s going to we’re going to fall harder and we’re going to fall longer and the rest of the world will recover faster.

 

And that’s what we’re looking at. And, you know, we don’t have long before all of this happens. I mean, it’s going to be a few years before all plays out.

 

But we’re really at the end of that. We really, really are. There’s no way to maintain the system in it.

 

And it’s it’s also causing infighting at the state level. It’s doing some very positive things in terms of gold around the states. I’d like to talk about Florida here in a few moments when we get the chance.

 

But yeah, you’re you’re seeing major issues with the United States, the United States alliance. And by the way, that is also affecting Europe and Japan. When I wrote in my book in 2009, I said Europe and Japan would fall before the US, the currencies in their economies.

 

And they will. How do Europe and Japan recover without the United States being able to buy their debt and to trade with them and stuff like that? Europe and Japan are going to have to turn more towards the BRICS alliance as well. It’s it’s already started with some agreements Germany’s had in energy and things like that.

 

And it’s going to continue. Europe and Japan, Australia, old allies in the United States are going to turn more towards the BRICS nations. And that’s going to cause the United States to be more isolated.

 

And it’s going to force at some point the United States to go back to the BRICS and to negotiate from a junior position. This won’t happen the next couple of years, but we’re talking about the next four to five. The United States and its trade agreements is going to be arguing from a junior position, not a dominant position.

 

And that’s something that people need to get used to. Hey, Rob, sorry about that. I think that was on my end.

 

OK, no, I just saw you freeze. I’m not sure what you got out of that. Yeah.

 

So you were just mentioning Europe and Japan. What’s coming up next for Europe and Japan? So Europe and Japan, you know, I wrote my book in 2009, Drop Show, The Truth About the Economy, that Europe and Japan’s economies and currencies will fall before the US. And they’re going to, much like the rest of the world will have their currency and economic issues.

 

And what will happen is it’ll cause the Europe and Japan to turn to the BRICS because the US is not going to be able to support them like they used to. And so they’re economically going to turn to the BRIC nations, to China and Russia. And what it’s going to cause eventually is the United States to renegotiate trade agreements five years from now from a junior position, not a dominant position.

 

Right now, Trump is trying to maintain the old system. And that’s why he’s using this rhetoric and the bluster and the tariffs, because he can, because the dollar is still dominant. But once that flips and our old trade partners are forced to go to the BRICS to do their trade agreements for survival for their economies and their currencies, the United States will come out of their own crash negotiating new trade agreements with those BRICS nations from a junior position.

 

And I’m not sure US citizens are aware that this is going to happen and that they’re cognizant that this is going to happen, but it’s going to happen now. It probably will start to happen more towards the end of this decade and the beginning of the new one. But that’s we’re going to see the United States being in a junior position economically to the rest of the world because we’ll have lost a lot of our trade partners because we can’t support them anymore.

 

And that’s what happens when you lose fiat dominance is what happened to British Empire in 1923. If you look at the British Empire, they had a massive empire around the world. I just saw a documentary on this massive empire around the world.

 

They had India. They had assets in the United States. They had assets in the Scandinavian nation, the Nordic nations.

 

They had assets in Australia and assets in Africa. And then 100 years later, it’s just the little UK. And that’s what’s going to happen to the US.

 

It’s going to go from this massive worldwide entity to just being the US and having to start all over again. And I’m not sure people are ready for that. And it’s going to happen fast.

 

Well, I would say in the next 10 years, a lot of it’s going to start to implode. And then in the next 20, 30, 40 years, you’re going to see people not care what the United States thinks anymore. And again, that will lead to opportunities for us to rebuild.

 

But we’re going to be dealing with the big threats. We’re going to be dealing with the BRICS nations. They’re going to be the ones dominating the conversation going into the starting in the next decade.

 

You know, we get in the 2030s, huge change. And that, by the way, aligns with some things coming out of the UN in terms of its 2030 agenda. They know that this is going to happen.

 

The world knows it’s going to happen. And that’s why a lot of this rhetoric around culture and geopolitics is shifting away from the United States right now. You can see it in all of these topics.

 

You can see it across the world. The whole world knows it’s going to happen. Before we hit record, you were telling me about some good news coming out of Florida there that could be a catalyst for gold becoming money again.

 

Let’s talk about some good news and close things out there. What are you seeing out of Florida? So in Florida, what you’re seeing, you know, when you get to the end of the nation state cycle, the nation goes back to what it knows before. And that includes money.

 

So what you’re seeing is this, you know, we were all last year citizens for sound money, which I’m on the board of directors at, had been advocating for several years for the return to gold. Not that we’re getting rid of the dollar, but at the state level, we want people to be able to transact in gold. The states want it.

 

Primarily, Florida wants it. Their monetary fintech office of the governor has told us they cannot complete building roads, bridges and schools because by the time they get to year three of their capital project expenditures, the money, the race doesn’t cover it because of inflation. So they want gold as a way to stabilize the state finances because they don’t have a printing press like the U.S. does.

 

So the U.S. printing press and the devaluation of the dollar is beginning to negatively affect and has been for some time state budgets. And so now you see at the state level, you’ve seen six states pass legislation, Louisiana being the latest, that makes gold explicitly money again in adherence with the U.S. Constitution, because even though the Fed came out in 1913, the dollar came out, we never rescinded gold and silver as a form of tender. And the states have the right through Amendment 10 of the Bill of Rights.

 

And so the people, the states and the people can retain that because still in the Constitution and trade in gold and silver so that we’re asking states to pass positive affirmative language, you know, upholding this and putting it on the books so that the states can begin building out the infrastructure for a gold based economy. We’ve got this going on in Texas. We’ve got it going on in Missouri.

 

We’ve got it going on a lot of states. But the big one is Florida, because it’s the ninth largest economy in the world, just slightly behind Texas. And several other states have said, if we pass gold as money in Florida, they will follow suit.

 

And this will start getting gold back into the system. And that’s critically important. Gold’s rising.

 

It had the seventh best year since 1971 last year. It was like a 25.5 percent gain. And it was like the third best year since the financial crash of 2008, where you had 2009, 2010, and then you had 2024 right in there along with those those gains.

 

So gold is going up. It’s a store of value. It has been for twenty five years.

 

The gold has beaten the economic indices, the major indices, S&P, the Dow. A lot of people don’t know that it has. And that’s before you even get into yields if you want to lease it.

 

So gold is a huge stabilizing factor. So in Florida, we’re in the second year now of trying to get the Gold Money Act passed. C4Sem wrote the one.

 

We wrote it. I was one of the authors that wrote this legislation that is now being considered in the state of Florida. We now have competition.

 

There’s another grassroots effort with a couple of billionaires coming over the top of us trying to kind of war with us a little bit in the language and getting that passed. But that’s actually a positive because now you have billionaires standing behind the passage, meaning they have money to push the Congress to pass this bill because, like it or not, in the United States, money is the milk of politics. You’ve got to have money to do this.

 

So they’re pushing money into the table to get this passed in Florida. And so it’s increasing the visibility a hundredfold of what we’re able to do by ourselves. So grassroots money, all that coming into Florida, Florida is becoming a battleground state for getting gold as money again.

 

And it’s a huge state. It’s an 800 pound gorilla, much like Texas. So we’re also going to do this in Texas after Florida.

 

So if we can get it passed in Florida this year, you can use gold as money in the ninth largest economy in the world. That is gargantuan for what could happen in restoring the Constitution and restoring a stable money system in the United States to help us, because we’re going to need this to build on the other side of this collapse. And we don’t have gold in our system.

 

You can’t build it with dollars. It’s talked about the weakness in the DXY, talked about the weakness in our bonds. You’re not going to do it with a fiat currency.

 

Gold has to be there. Thank God that we have resources in gold, that we can mine the United States and we have positive contracts with Canada and Mexico that mine a lot as well so that we can rebuild our economy using gold as an option. OK, that the states and localities can do that.

 

And even the federal level, we’d like to see this at the federal level. So we’re there and we’re working on that. And we think very strongly this is going to get passed this year.

 

It’s funny, though, it’s been put on pause. And I want to give you a little inside baseball on what’s going on in Florida. Huge thing erupting in Florida with regards to their two houses of Congress, their their house, their Senate and the governor.

 

The governor did a bit as soon as did a video yesterday saying because of illegal immigration, they called a special session. And so in that special session, they’re trying to get laws passed. Now, the speaker of the House and the Senate lead want to pass laws that transfer sovereignty of the borders from the Florida governor to the Department of Agriculture, because the Department of Agriculture uses all these illegal aliens.

 

In other words, they want to increase the amount of illegal aliens coming into Florida and pass soft laws. And the governor stopped it and said no. And they’re warring with each other.

 

So what happens is the the Congress calls the what the governor says you have to be in session special session. He calls it. And then what happens is, is the Senate and House come in and they bang their gavel and say special sessions over.

 

And the governor says, no, I’m going to call another one and force you back into the legislative body to do this. And if you don’t, I’m going to veto every bill you put before me for the next year. And so there’s an all out war going on in Florida over the immigration issue between the government and the two houses of Congress.

 

But aren’t the two houses Republican as well? They are. And what’s happened, the inside baseball is because we’re there and we’re we’re on our monetary. We’re not on the immigration issue on the monetary issue.

 

But the inside baseball is people are telling us that because they it’s a Republican dominated state, they’re not fighting the Democrats anymore. They’ve turned on each other. So this could be a preview of what happens in the national legislature as well.

 

When you don’t have that common enemy to fight, you start fighting each other. So I wonder if this is going to spur a division in party politics and Republicans across the nation going forward. And does that mean all of the agenda will get done that Trump wants? Noise is causing issues with the state of Florida.

 

It’s cause it’s going to cause issues on a national level with what Trump wants. And so the big picture here is, yes, we want to get gold as money. But politically speaking, the United States is fracturing.

 

And just because you have dominance in one political party doesn’t mean you’re actually going to get stuff done. The state of Florida basically is on fire right now over the immigration issue. And I see this coming to the United States as well.

 

I seeing factions develop. I’m seeing factions develop. And I think that we’ll see factions develop within the Republican Party.

 

And that’s going to cause a little bit more political turmoil as well. So I would say just kind of buckle up and watch what happens the next four years. It’s not going to be as smooth as people think.

 

Trump’s tariffs are not going to work exactly how we want them to. We’re going to have major issues, like I said, economically. And we’re going to have major ideological issues within the Republican Party.

 

Again, the good news on the back side of that is gold is returning us money. We think we’re going to get Florida this year, maybe Texas in the following two years. And it’s going to offer opportunity for us to rebuild.

 

But we’ve got to go through the negative stuff first. We’ve got to go through the crash first. Gotcha.

 

Well, hey, Rob, it’s been a pleasure having you on as always. Anything else you want to bring up before we wrap up here? No, I would just say, pay attention to your channel. The way that you do things and the way that you bring content certainly is shaking up, you know, our community.

 

And it’s good to happen. You know, I’ve been in this alternative community for 15 years, writing and doing video, and it’s nice to have new voices come in. You’re not really new anymore.

 

I mean, you’ve been doing this for a while, but you’ve kind of shaken things up with the way that you approach it. And I guess, and we need that. I think there’s a lot of common thought, even in alternative media.

 

We’re, we’re susceptible to this as well in old tropes and not challenging assumptions and not challenging the way that we look at things. And I love channels like this because you come in and challenge it. You’re not afraid to do it.

 

And I think we got to keep doing that, you know, as we march forward and what we’re going to face as a nation, we have to have everybody’s ideas on the table and we can’t discount anything. And we need to have critical conversations like this. It’s vitally important.

 

This is vital part of the healing of our nation to have this community. We’re not getting it in the mainstream media. So I would say, keep doing what you’re doing.

 

You’re doing an excellent job. I appreciate you having me on and all the best wishes for your channel going forward. Yeah, I appreciate it, Rob.

 

I mean, growth is really key. You can’t just be, you have to flow like a river. You can’t just be still water.

 

There’s a reason you can’t let water stay still because it just accumulates bacteria and all these other things. So, um, you know, the goal should always be to, you know, you look back a year from now and you should see a stark difference. You should always be kind of evolving and, you know, adapting to the, to the environment and to the circumstance.

 

So I appreciate the kind words there. Rob, where can people find you? Uh, just look up the Freedom Report on YouTube and Twitter. That’s our primary, primarily at you can find me on LinkedIn, but, um, I’m active YouTube and Twitter, do my weekly videos, do my tweets, um, look us up on citizensforsoundmoney.org as well.

 

If you want to support the sound money initiative, I just want to advertise that here for a sec, a quick plug, because it does cost money. We spent hundreds of thousands of dollars last year. We’re going to spend even more this year trying to bring gold and silver back as money.

 

And this is grassroots nonprofit. I work for free on the board. I don’t get a salary.

 

Most of us work for free. We only have two paid employees and we need to expand that. We just developed an advisory board that has some really big names on it, which we’ll be announcing here pretty soon.

 

And we’re going to bring more visibility into gold as money again. So please just, if you have a moment, just go look up citizens for sound money. Uh, look at the, look at our options out there, support us please as much as you can, because if we can bring gold back as money, that’s really a safe haven for everybody watching this program.

 

It will give you the air cover you need to buy your gold and silver and to use it and to survive what was going to be the coming economic collapse. It’s coming, but we need gold and silver. And this organization is promoting that and providing everybody watching this with a way to use it to be legally compliant and to give yourself an alternative when that dollar falls.

 

And it’s going to fall. And especially if you’re on fixed income, this is vitally important. The value of the money you’re getting from the government is going to fall.

 

It’s vitally important that we protect our seniors. We protect our bets. We want to protect these, these vulnerable classes because they’re not earning money anymore.

 

You know, we can go start businesses, Danny, those guys can’t. And so we need to protect them. And one way we can protect our veterans, our seniors, and people that are vulnerable is to get gold and silver as money again, and to help them with that so that they can survive what’s coming.

 

Totally. A hundred percent. Rob, thank you so much for coming on my friend.

 

I really appreciate your time guys. Thank you so much for watching. If you got value out of this content, be sure to give us a like and comment.

 

Go Rob, go in the comment section. Disagreed with anything. However, do let me know.

 

I do read the comments also subscribe to the channel so you don’t miss an episode and check out our partners over at ITM trading or specialized gold and silver strategy sessions to help you allocate your capital within the precious metal space. And finally also check us out on Substack, capitalcosm.substack.com, where you can get this content early and before the YouTube audience, as well as ad free and uncensored for the content that warrants it. And with all that said, I’ll catch you guys in the next episode.

 

Thanks for watching.

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