Gold Is Breaking Out Against The Stock Market (Uncut) 03-12-2025

Jordan Roy-Byrne: Gold Is Breaking Out Against The Stock Market

But the other part, gold against the stock market, has not done as well because the stock market, as we know, has been in a secular bull for years and years. However, if we look at a gold against the S&P chart, gold against the stock market, in the last week, that is breaking out of a four-year long base. Well, hello there, my friends.

Chris Marcus here with you for Arcadia Economics and excited to be joined by a guest today that we have had on the show before. It’s been far too long, although, especially with everything that is going on now, and also a little different because we don’t do this too often. But fortunately, Jordan Royburn of The Daily Gold is with me, as you can see, and studies the technicals a lot.

And I know we have a lot of people that look to that. And fortunately, Jordan, it’s great to have you here and dig into that, as well as the other exciting things that are going on. So how are you today, my friend? Hey, I’m doing well, Chris.

Thanks so much for having me on. Well, it’s really nice to have you on here. It’s nice to see you together with my colleague, Vince Lancey, from time to time.

And Jordan, I think the last time we did this, I was still living in Denver. So that must have been 2020 or earlier. Obviously, our gold price a little bit higher now.

As of Tuesday afternoon, we’re at $29.22, and silver at $33.18. So it actually has just broken the $33 level today. And anyway, why don’t I hand it over to you? And just first, any thoughts you’ve had of what’s been going on lately? We had a big rally over the past year, and then we can dig in from there. Well, Chris, I would say the timing is really important, because what we’ve seen in the last week or two is gold against the stock market, which is one thing I look at.

Another indicator I have is gold against the 60-40 portfolio, which, as we know, is a conventional investment portfolio, 60% stocks, 40% bonds. It’s something I covered in my book and I post about on Twitter and YouTube, as well. So gold against the stock is specifically 40% of that ratio.

That ratio is really close to breaking out of a 10-year base on the back of gold just been crushing bonds in recent years. But the other part, gold against the stock market, has not done as well, because the stock market, as we know, has been in a secular bull for years and years. However, if we look at a gold against the S&P chart, gold against the stock market, in the last week, that is breaking out of a four-year-long base, which is extremely significant.

I mean, we were talking offline, you referenced the video I published yesterday on my channel. And so looking at gold against the stock market or the inverse, the stock market against gold, those are breaking out in favor of gold. And that is extremely significant, because what that tells us is if that continues, which I believe it will, that tells us that money is moving out of conventional stocks and into gold.

And that’s something we really haven’t seen. I mean, it’s been happening a little bit in the last few years, but not to that strong of a degree. And we’ve seen this in the last week, where the stock market’s been selling off, but gold has actually been holding up and rising.

So this is just, I mean, I can’t tell you how significant this is. This is something that’s happened, you know, this is only the fourth time in the last 100 years we’ve seen this kind of breakout where gold is breaking out against the stock market. So this is something, again, this is something that we have not seen since really the early 2000s, the last time it happened in favor of gold.

So this is a new trend that we are going to see moving forward, which is capital is going to move out of conventional assets, namely stocks, at a much stronger pace than what we’ve seen in recent years, and it’s going to move into gold. And I mean, it’s important for so many reasons, because when you look at the rest of the sector, like silver, for example, and the mining stocks, when this happens, those parts of the sectors perform even better. Now, this doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to happen immediately the next week or the next month, but it means if we step back and we take a 30,000-foot view, the next decade is going to be very, very strong for precious metals in all parts of the sector.

So I could just go on and on about how significant this is, but I’ll spare you that. But so that, just thinking about this happening in the last week, it’s really good timing. This is just extremely significant, because again, this wasn’t breaking out.

I mean, it did break out in 2020, but it came back. And even in the last couple of years, we’ve seen gold and silver trend higher, but again, they weren’t outperforming the stock market to the level that we like to see. And so based on that ratio chart, gold against the S&P, it’s just such a significant breakout.

Yeah, and by all means, no need to apologize, because I think this is quite important, what we’re seeing now. And I apologize, I didn’t have the best chart up there. I’ll dig, see if I can get a better one in a moment here.

But going back to the stock market, certainly that’s something that a lot of us in the metals community were expecting. You saw that correction back in 2022, when we started getting the interest rate hikes, yet even before the, there’s around where we got our cut, the 50 basis point cut, that’s September. But I mean, still with the over 5% Fed funds rate, didn’t phase the stock market.

I think a lot of metals people have always felt that once the printed money is withdrawn, that’s when you would see a correction in the stock market. We’ve certainly gotten that over the past month or so here. And anything else you could add, though, or perhaps elaborate on of, are we going to see this reversed a couple months from now? Or is it just the effect that Trump and some of the policies with the uncertainty is having? Or what do you make of what we’re seeing in the stock market at this particular time? Well, good question about the reversal.

I mean, I think I’m presuming you’re talking about the stock market and the ratio. So thinking about the ratio, you know, technically, we could wait till the end of the month of the monthly close to confirm it. But I think with respect to the overall stock market, I haven’t taken a detailed or a deep look at it yet, but it’ll come down.

And at some point, it’ll have that rally back up, and then the bears will try and bring it down again. So it’s natural, I think, at this point, we could follow the Fed decisions or the bond market. I mean, if we see, like, if you tell me for the rest of this year, we’re going to have to see a number of cuts, a number of rate cuts by the Federal Reserve, that, to me, would signal that the primary trend in the stock market is probably down.

Now, there’s sometimes when the economy is healthy enough, when they cut rates, where you don’t get a recession, and then the market can really take off. But if the economy is not strong enough, and it’s looking like it’s going to fall into recession, you know, and then the bond market, you know, you see the money coming into the bond market, the short-term rates, which basically front runs the Fed, you know, you see that the two-year rates are coming down, and then the Fed follows that, they do the cuts. If that happens, and the economy is going into a recession or just looks really weak, that’s when you can get, you know, during the period of recession, where the Fed’s cutting, but it’s actually not bullish for the stock.

So I know it’s kind of a roundabout answer, but I think for the rest of the year, you could see something like that happen. And then where the primary trend in the S&P comes down, and, you know, who knows, we possibly could be in a bear market. And I think, as we know, for gold and, you know, secondarily silver, that’s going to be a really good thing.

So gold breaking out against the S&P to come back to that, that’s really setting the stage for just, again, the next decade, but also the next leg higher in this bull market, where you start to see conventional money, you know, generalist money or normies, as some people like to say, you see that money start to come into stocks. And it makes sense, because usually when that starts to happen, it’s after a peak in the stock market, or it’s, you know, because there’s an economic problem. Excuse me, Jordan.

Just did you mean the money coming into gold and silver, you said into stocks, although I think you might have meant gold and silver as the stock market declines? Yes, yes. As the market declines, I expect money will go into precious metals, you know, primarily gold, but at the same time, silver as well. So yes, I expect, yeah, it’d probably answer another question.

I don’t mean to be too long here. But I strongly believe this period, I mean, if we’re having a recession of bear market, the way things are set up, this is going to be more like 2000 to 2002 in the early 70s. I don’t, I see very few comparisons with 2008, as far as how the markets are set up.

Everybody says, oh, it’s 2008 again. I mean, maybe it is, you know, because we’re going to have a recession and downturn. But if you look at what happened 2000 to 2002, 73 to 74, that’s what gold and silver, you know, more so in the early 70s with respect to gold, they diverged from the bear market.

So I think a lot of investors are just assuming, oh, I’ll wait and I’ll buy after the big pullback or the big crash. I don’t see that happening in gold and silver. Now, yes, over the next year or two, if you tell me precious metals are going up and the stock market will trend lower, that doesn’t mean gold and silver are going to go up every week and every month and not have corrections along the way.

So again, if you look at 2001 to 2002, you look at 70, I think 73 to 74, gold and silver, they had some pullbacks, some sharp pullbacks along the way, but it was a complete divergence. They trended up while the market was trending down. I believe that’s what we’re set up for.

And a big reason for that is because the last decade or so or eight or nine years, even though money has come into gold and a little bit into silver, they have not outperformed the stock market. So investors, conventional investors, they have been buying stocks and all their money has gone into stocks and not precious metals. And so gold breaking out against the 60-40 portfolio and gold breaking out against the stock market, that signals that that capital is now going to move from stocks into gold.

And that, again, that is the trigger for the next leg up the next decade. And also for this period of outperformance, when the stock market itself actually declined. So in other words, if you look at 07, 08, precious metals had gone up for seven years.

They were already outperforming the stock market for years and years. So there was a huge amount of capital that was already in precious metals in 07 and 08 at that point, which could be sold during that nasty period. There’s just there’s not enough money that’s in the sector right now.

And so, again, yes, they’ll correct at some point, as all bull markets do. And at some point during the recession, they will correct. But stepping back, don’t get worried that there’s going to be some big crash and silver is going to be down 60 percent and gold 30 percent.

I absolutely don’t see that happening this time. Yeah, well, wow. A lot of great points that you had in there.

And I would certainly as a gold and silver investor since 2009, which was shortly after the dip in 2008, although I’ve read and thought and studied about that quite a bit. And then what we saw in 2020, where was it silver was under 12 bucks for a day or two. And so it’s like in the back of my mind, like I’m always like, well, it could be there.

Hopefully not. And but I mean, everything you’re saying about the stock market makes a lot of sense. I’ll add on to that, that we we still have the doge board supposedly going forward.

And, you know, if you’re taking if government spending 23, 24 percent of GDP and you’re going to make some cuts to that, I’m not saying stop burning and wasting money is not the right thing to do. Just it’s like when the body is really sick, you know, you get a little infection, it becomes a bigger problem. But like you said, if the stock market declines, obviously there’s going to be the impact in the trading, although that’s what I’ve found is what really gets people calling to buy physical metal.

And I guess along those lines, how do you factor in? Obviously, we’ve heard delays from the Bank of England, silver reported in a deficit for five years, I believe now. And now that that inventory in London is getting low, how do you factor in or do you think about there’s a possibility that we could have a supply issue? And if so, or if not, how do you factor that into everything else you’re saying there? Well, I think it’s in the market, it’s in the price. But I, you know, over time, I think people with respect to the metals, you know, they can do their own thing.

But I think dollar cost averaging into gold and silver, I mean, physical, you know, if you’re active in the physical market, I think that’s the best way to do it. Because when there’s a correction, or the price is coming down, you’re buying more, if it gets too extended, you’re only buying a little bit or you wait, you wait a couple months. So that’s how I look at the physical supply situation as far as what you’re saying.

But with respect to silver, you know, I interviewed David Morgan, I’m sure you’ve, I mean, he was just on your channel, I’m sure you interview him regularly. And I like to call him Mr. Silver, because nobody knows more about him than silver. But we were talking offline after the interview, and he was showing me some data, you know, he’s not a hyperbolic guy, but he wouldn’t say it.

But like I was putting the words in his mouth, like, you know, maybe not now, but like, maybe in, you know, seven years or someone could try to corner the silver market again. I mean, because if we’re looking at the supply situation, and if this industrial demand, which is really strong, like in the last year, and again, this isn’t my forte, or expertise, but I think in the last year, like this is maybe the only year where we’ve seen, you’ve seen huge investment demand, but you’ve also seen industrial demand that’s really big at the same time. Because usually, if you get huge investment demand, the industrial demand isn’t really there.

So that’s something to think about in silver. And again, you know, I’m just putting words in David’s mouth. But if this industrial demand really continues and accelerates for another, you know, I’m not saying the next couple years, but seven, eight, nine years, you get well into the next decade.

And, you know, based on my book, and what I’m seeing, I think the trends in gold and silver are going to run for another decade. I don’t think it’s going to be a couple years, and they’re over. So if we’re thinking about what’s going on in silver, and then you get to 2032, 2033, I think someone could try and corner the market again.

And just based on, you know, how much investment demand will be coming. And again, at the same time, the industrial demand, which, you know, respected people are forecasting, you know, if this continues, sure, it’ll ebb and flow some years, but if it continues trending higher over time, like there will be a real supply problem at some point. And that’ll be the price because we’ll know when there’s a real supply problem, you’ll see silver shooting higher.

And not to get hyperbolic, but I do think, and I don’t want to, you know, take your next question away from you. But I’ll just say, you know, based on that, based on the technical setup, like this, you know, maybe not now or the next year, but in a few years or five, like this could be a really, really explosive market on the upside at some point. Yeah, well, especially because I don’t know if you’ve seen this one, but as you’re mentioning what could happen with silver industrially in the next decade, have you seen this already? This study Oxford put out, basically it was for fabrication demand for silver jewelry, 10 year forecast.

I may have seen that for a moment. But yeah, I don’t think I’ve seen the whole thing. Well, let me refresh you and share with our audience that the main points that they came back with.

And again, I’ll give my disclaimer, I preface this with, geez, if there’s ever been a time in the world where we probably know less about what’s going to happen over the next 10 year period, this may be it. And with that said, I’ll just read what they came back with. Between 2023 and 33, we forecast the global output of end users of industrial silver will increase by 46% in real terms.

So they’re saying we’re running a deficit now is what the Silver Institute and Metals Focus are reporting. And industrial, Oxford’s saying up 46%. Jewelry up 34%.

Silverware up 30%. I mean, you combine the output of industrial jewelry and silver fabricators forecast increase by 42% over the next decade. So that’s what they’re seeing.

And so not just your forecast, I mean, there’s other people who are coming to this same conclusion. And for valid reason, because we’re still hearing governments talking about the green agenda and tripling their energy by 2030 and 2050. So like on the plan we’re going with right now, it’s going to put some pressure under this.

Yeah, absolutely. And I just think about the investment demand as well. And we know that people like buying things that go higher.

And again, if you think about what’s happened this year, or maybe last year and this year, where you have the prices gone higher and you’ve had, I mean, you’ve had strong investment demand and at the same time, strong industrial demand. Like you normally don’t see that. Like when the market, the price is going lower, usually you have little or negative investment demand, but huge industrial demand.

I think this is the only year or two where you’ve seen both going higher. And again, if you look at the numbers and just project forward and think about seven, eight, nine, 10 years from now, okay, this industrial demand is off the chart and it’s going to continue. And at the same time, you’re looking at the technicals of the price.

And so silver, for the most part, it follows gold. It’s a leverage play on gold. We’re looking at gold and gold’s really strong.

But yeah, again, I’m not saying it’s going to be this year, next year or two years from now, but you put it all together, this is a really, really explosive setup for silver. Like when we’re in the next decade, we’re not going to be seeing silver at $47 or $28 or $59. I mean, it’s going to be a couple of hundred dollars an ounce.

This market is set. And again, I’m not trying to be really hyperbolic, even though it sounds like it, but this market is set up to really explode over the next decade. Yeah.

And Jordan, I can actually speak to that because I remember the last time we talked and times before that we’ve communicated where I was feeling, hey, at some point this is going to pop and you were a bit more reserved. So this is a different, this isn’t, you’ve been saying this for years. And so hopefully that context is helpful.

And another thing that along what you just mentioned, though, is that we’ve had a wave of selling in silver on the retail level. And I keep thinking about, all right, we’re already running the deficit and that doesn’t seem to be getting any better. I’m hearing reports of bullion dealers that are having coins and bars melted down that are being recast as thousand ounce bars.

And it’s like, that’s with people selling. What happens if those sellers at some point, and like you said, maybe it is a stock market decline that turns that to buying the same time we have the industrial forecasted increase. I guess I won’t say it’s an increase yet.

Well, over two years in, they published that in 2023. So the first two years, they’re looking good so far. And Jordan, with all that said, I’ll pull out our max chart, which unfortunately is so brief back in 1980.

We don’t get the spike on this one yet. Factoring all that in, I mean, I guess you just answered the first half. Do you think that we are going to see silver back above 50 at some point? And do you want to add anything to what you said there? But also if in the case that the answer is yes there, obviously I’m curious your particular view on this because as someone who’s knowledgeable about the technicals, is there anything in particular that you might be expecting like the day it goes through 50? Is it going to be like what we saw here this past year where it took a little while to get through 30 but spiked up briefly, but we haven’t had like, I remember talking with David Morgan.

He thought once we went through 30, it might shoot higher towards 50. That has not happened, but long tangential question there. But are we going through 50 and anything that you might expect when that does occur, if it happens? Yeah, a couple of things I’d say.

First, before we get there, looking at monthly and quarterly charts, 35 to 37, that to me is probably the real, and again, this is a 50,000 foot view, 35 to 37, 38, you can throw that. That’s really the stiffest resistance, I think, on the way to 50. Now, it’s been interesting because 33, I mean, excuse my French, but I mean, that’s been such a bitch.

I mean, looking at the market the last month or two, it’s like, it’s above 33. Okay, now it’s going to go to 35. Oh, it’s coming back.

It’s a failed breakout. Okay, now it’s back up there. I mean, it’s just back and forth.

I mean, it’s been such a bitch if you’re trading it. But if we can finally pull away from that, the market will probably test 35, 37, 38. Maybe we get a bigger pullback at that point.

But that’s really the first thing is once we get past 37, 38, then you’re on the way to 50. And again, are we going to have a bigger correction before we break 37, 38? Or maybe we’ll just blow through it and get to 50 sooner than we think it may be at that point. We pull back for three or six months.

I mean, I don’t know. There are multiple scenarios. But again, that’s the key.

35, 37, 38, that’s the stiff resistance. When you get past that, you’re going to 50. And I talk about this in my book.

And I don’t like to make predictions except when the data is really there. But when I look at the history of commodities breaking out of these really long bases, based on what copper and oil did in the mid-2000s, like silver, when it breaks above 50, that could get to 90, 95 in 12 to 15 months. I mean, it sounds ridiculous and extreme.

But it’s not extreme considering what commodities, the kind of moves that they make when they break above these really long bases. And silver breaking above 50, that to me will be the second greatest breakout of all time. I wish I could say it.

I probably tweeted once it’s the greatest breakout of all time. But honestly, the greatest breakout of all time was commodity prices in the early 70s. And when we lifted the gold standard, if you look at commodity prices, they broke out of a 100-year base because you had this big peak during the Civil War.

Then you had another peak during 1920, 1971, 1972. Then commodity prices as a whole broke out of this 100-year long base. So in our capital markets history, that was the greatest breakout of all time.

But this time around, silver breaking 50 will be the second biggest breakout of all time. And yeah, that’s the kind of move I think you’re going to see when it breaks 50. I think you will see a really strong move to roughly 100 bucks.

And maybe it’s 18 months or 15 months. But yeah, we could call it 12 to 15 months. I think that’s what we’re going to see.

And I think when we get above 40, you’ll start to see some FOMO. And people will be talking about it on Twitter. And I think the stocks will start to front run that.

Because you kind of saw the same thing in 2011. We got above 20 or 25. The stocks were really just ripping big time.

They were really discounting that move, before the market really moved to 50. So I think you could see when we get to 40 and break above 40 on the way to 50, I think at that point, you could see sentiment will really pick up. Again, the mining stocks and the juniors, everything silver will start to really front run that move, which is nice.

Because you could play the stocks first, thinking about the move to 50. And then when it breaks 50, or before it breaks 50 and it gets close, you can think about the metal breaking 50. So I know that that’s a lot to take in.

But yeah, it’ll be the second biggest breakout of all time. Well, that’s certainly exciting news. And I mean, especially because you mentioned some of the relative relationships.

I mean, also with gold coming to 3000 now, not far off. Do you feel like there’s some point at which gold is going to get to some level, and then it’s like you have to have a bigger move in silver? It’s a really good question. I would have thought maybe 3000.

But I just think the way the technicals on silver are set up, and how in the reading of history, where it’s silver tends to perform later in a move and not necessarily in the middle. I just think those factors, they add into my thinking. I don’t know if I said this earlier, that I think maybe when silver breaks past 37, 38, that resistance, that’s probably when you’ll start to see it maybe start to increase relative to, or I should say, outperform gold.

Or maybe it’s the low 40s. Maybe that’s the point when silver will start to outperform gold to go more strongly. But yeah, I mean, based on the numbers, yes, it does seem silver is really cheap.

I mean, it’s really inexpensive, and it’s a value at this point. And people know that. But everybody’s obsessed with price action, and they want it to be doing really well to feel good.

But again, if you’re taking a 30,000-foot view, and you’re a really long-term investor, you should be buying silver over gold at this point. I mean, again, if you’re thinking about five years and 10 years from now, you should be buying silver instead of gold. But if you’re thinking about five weeks or five months, maybe you’d be a little more partial to gold at this point.

Okay. Well, no, that’s great news to hear, and it makes sense what you’re saying, and especially for anyone else out there like myself who went, there were times where I had no gold and 100% silver. I’ve been working on that a little bit.

And again, this is what I’ve done. I’m not saying necessarily what anyone else should do, but I hope you’re right, Jordan, that that would be great news. And anyway, a lot of great stuff that you shared here today, which I really appreciate.

And perhaps you could just let people know how they can keep track. And I think there’s a lot of people who are quite interested in the type of things you cover. And I know that you also have a new book out, or I’m not sure if it’s new, but anything you could tell us there and let people know about.

Yeah, it is due. Yeah. Thanks so much for the opportunity, Chris.

Yeah, they can follow all my work. Or first thing, go to thedailygold.com at the top there, you can opt in for free. And you get my book, which just, yeah, it’s like maybe a month or two old at this point.

So I mean, basically is brand new. There’s nearly 100 charts in there, but it basically contains all my thoughts on gold and silver moving forward. What can we expect in the next decade or so? And again, you opt in there, I’ll send you an email where you get a PDF and also an EPUB file.

I think they’re really well put together. So it’s easy reading on your device. The physical book should be up on Amazon at some point in the next week or two.

But I haven’t seen how the printed version looks. But again, I really do like the PDF and EPUB version, really easy to read. So I would encourage people to get that.

I mean, you could follow me on Twitter. I also have a YouTube channel where I post everything. And I do write a premium service where I’m looking at which junior gold and silver companies I think have 5X to 10X potential.

And those are the ones that I invest in, the ones that I think can really leverage this move higher. So if you’d be interested in the newsletter, I would love to have you. If not, I publish lots of free info.

Again, opt in there at thedailygold.com, get my book, and follow me on Twitter and on my YouTube channel, The Daily Gold. I would love to have you follow my free work, even if you don’t want to be a subscriber. Well, I sure appreciate that.

And I’ll also add that you mentioned earlier that you do a monthly call with our dear friend Vince Lancey. And so anyway, held in quite high regard and I appreciate the information you put out there. And I think it’s going to be helpful for people, especially in the midst of the environment we’re in.

It’s still in the back of my mind thing. This is intriguing that gold’s where it is, silver’s above 30 for really only the third time. And we still haven’t had anything happen with the debt yet, which for me, if you boil it all down, yes, the money printing too.

But the fact that, I don’t know. I know the Trump team has a lot of intricate plans. I don’t know if they can make that debt disappear.

But it’s still there. And I always wondered, well, if the world’s reserve currency is essentially bankrupt and you have to recognize that at some point, that was the main thing that got me so much into this. And it’s interesting to see the prices where they are without that having been resolved.

Although fortunately, you guys can get a copy of Jordan’s book, which is kindly made available for free, a link to that in the description field below. And Jordan, just really appreciate you making some time and it’s fun to catch up with you. We’ll have to do this again soon and maybe we’ll get a round table one day.

We get Vince on and you may know Peter Kraut, who wrote The Great Silver Bowl, another good silver book. And we’ll set something like that up soon and be fun and just great to see you again. And thanks for being here.

Yeah. By the way, I do know Peter. I mean, I call him my Kraut Mick friend.

That’s a godfather, godfather reference. I think most people should get that. Yeah, I do know Peter and I know Vince as well.

I’d love to be on a round table with both of those guys or either one of them. And thanks so much for having me, Chris. It was great to catch up.

I really appreciate the opportunity to speak with your audience and look forward to communicating in the future. All right. That sounds good, my friend.

And we’ll get that set up. Well, thank you to Jordan. And thank you at home for being here, watching and joining us today.

If you were here live, hope you enjoyed having fun in the chat. And one last final note before we wrap up. I would also like to thank Fortuna Mining, who kindly sponsored today’s show.

And obviously, you’ve seen quite a bit about Fortuna as we regularly have calls with Jorge Ganoza, the CEO of Fortuna. And they did have news out this morning as they have updated their mineral reserves and mineral resources. And as they noted in their press release, the consolidated inferred mineral resources came back with 2.2 million gold equivalent ounces, a year-over-year increase of 29 percent.

Measured and indicated resources exclusive of mineral reserves was 1.5 million ounces, and that’s an increase of 36 percent. And in terms of those increased percentages, they mentioned that the drivers are the results of infill drilling and the discovery of new inferred resources, representing 741,000 gold equivalent ounces. And in terms of proven and probable mineral reserves, they came back with 2.7 million gold equivalent ounces.

That was down 11 percent as a result of the depletion from what they have been mining throughout the past year, although offset by the upgrading of the resources to reserves, representing 204,000 gold equivalent ounces. And we will have a little bit more on that later today on the channel. But in case you did not see the last interview we did with Jorge Ganoza following their earnings call just about a week ago, well, that one is coming your way now.