And that is on top of what we think is probably underappreciated amount of leverage that’s in the financial markets. We think it’s a highly levered market. And one sort of sample of that, you could say, is what happened on the Monday after DeepSeek.

DeepSeek information – news comes out over the weekend, and Monday saw a massive sell-off. And NVIDIA, the second largest company in the world, was down 17 percent in one day. I mean, that speaks volumes about the leverage that’s in the system.

And so we think that there will be this pressure that may come from the leverage, which could see an immediate sort of larger degree type of a sell-off. And then it’s going to be probably a fundamentally driven slow grind for U.S. markets, except for the ones that are actually improving and doing well, kind of the places that we’re interested in. On this episode of What The Finance podcast, I have the pleasure of welcoming on Wasif Lateef.

So Wasif is the president and CIO of Samaya Partners. Samaya. Apologies for that.

Not the best at pronouncing things. But he’s got 25 years of investment experience, managing equities, global multi-assets and multi-manager portfolios in multiple funds and ETFs, wealth management and institutional portfolios. So, Wasif, thanks so much for coming on the podcast today.

Yeah, thank you, Anthony. Great to meet you. Great to be with you.

Yeah, looking forward to the conversation because you have quite an interesting sort of thematic approach, which I’m sure we’ll get to later in the conversation. But I thought we’d start very broad and just to better understand what is your current outlook or what do you currently see in the markets? Sure. That’s a great question.

A great place to start. So, you know, the markets have had a really strong run over the past couple of years. And to us, it looks that a lot of good news and high expectations are baked in, especially when it comes to US large cap equities, especially on the growth side.

So that to us seems very rich. And that’s all within the context of a broader economic backdrop of the economy is still doing well. It seems to be holding up.

The recession that everybody was expecting last year never came. And, you know, there’s there’s a possibility of getting some kind of a growth scare. And if that happens, then the strong returns that we’ve seen in the market might be challenged.

But also, more importantly, what that means for fixed income side and inflationary expectations, that becomes really important as well. To us, there’s there’s always opportunity in the market and we see a lot of great opportunity in a wide variety of different areas outside of the mega cap and large cap growth space, which we can we can touch on. But broadly speaking, when you look at the big picture, longer term viewpoint, our view is that since the pandemic, the world has changed.

We basically crossed the Rubicon. And because of that, we’re not in the same world anymore. Inflation is a dragon that’s resurfaced and we haven’t slated yet.

We think it’s still lurking. It’s dormant. And there’s a chance that it flares up again, perhaps similar to what happened in the 1970s.

The other piece is that we are in a much more elevated geopolitical risk environment as well as a much higher fiscal risk environment as it comes to the finances of the various developed sovereign nations. And so because of that, the debt burdens are higher, all with the backdrop of inflation still being persistent, which has kept interest rates higher. And so the bottom line is interest rates being higher make a big difference to asset prices and the prospect of asset prices in the future.

I’ve often said and I put this in my post once in a while, which is that interest rates drive everything, dot, dot, dot, eventually. So there are lags attached and it does take some time. But between the pressures of inflation and the sovereign debt levels and the fiscal pressures, we think that rates are likely to stay higher.

The bond bull market that lasted for the better part of 40 years ended in 2021. And we are now in a world where interest rates are going to stay higher for longer. There’s a chance that we haven’t seen the highs of this move up in long rates.

And as that happens, that’s going to be a challenge to what’s going on. So that’s the big picture longer term. On a near term basis, you could get, as I mentioned earlier, a growth scare.

And if you get a growth scare, you know, whether it’s in the shape of unexpected, unexpected decline in earnings or an unexpected increase in unemployment, which so far it’s been it’s been stable to good. But if you start seeing that creeping up, you could get a concern around the economy. And that kind of growth scare could mean race rally and you get a sort of a short term deflationary type of impulse.

But we think that that’s going to be short lived given the policy dynamics, given the the policy precedents that we have of the central banks, the Fed and other banks, as well as now the fiscal side of the house stepping in and providing stimulus. And there’s a reason for that. And I can touch on that because of what the market means for the market, for the economy, especially the U.S. economy.

And so we think you could get a growth scare where you get a little bit of a deflationary scare. But ultimately, that’s going to lead to an inflationary impulse, which which would be challenging for rates as well as fixed income. Now, the fixed income market has been volatile and it’s been reflecting that over the past couple of years.

We think that the message of higher rates hasn’t reached the equity market. So the equity market is is ignoring it or focusing on the optimism. And that’s driven by flows with different types of investor types having impact to the market on, you know, somewhat of a new basis.

It’s not unprecedented. You saw a little bit of that in in prior cycles in the late 90s with some investing impact as well through leverage and through some of the retail space. But we think that the equity market really hasn’t gotten the message yet.

And and there could be some some challenges up ahead for that space. So anyway, I’ll stop talking and see where you want to go. Yes, many places to go.

So it sounds like do you see this trend sort of being a bit of a decade long, as you said, that could be, you know, nothing goes straight up. So it could sort of be ups and downs of inflation and I guess then rates as well. So you see it sort of being to the end of the decade.

You see this being something longer. How are you looking at? Yeah, so I do think these are longer term cycles. And I’m jokingly I’ve jokingly said in the past that, you know, we better get our bell bottoms out because we’re going back to the 70s.

And that’s, you know, half half jokingly because it’s not exactly going to be like that. But the inflationary pressures might resemble that. And then you add that to what you’re seeing on the equity market, which is a combination of what you saw in the 1972 nifty 50 market, coupled with what you saw in the late 90s Internet boom.

There could be some challenges there. And the most important thing that you can think of from a from a fundamental standpoint can be the valuations of stocks are really important from a starting point basis. In other words, they might valuations aren’t necessarily a good indicator of what’s going to happen in the next three months or six months.

But there’s a high correlation. The R squared is pretty high when you extrapolate out the market behavior over the next several years, five, seven and 10 years. So as you keep on going out in time, the correlation, the R squared, in other words, the impact of valuations does kick in.

And so the starting point today at the headline level for the U.S. market to be specific is fairly rich. It’s quite high depending on how you look at it. And that doesn’t bode well for the overall market on in the forward year.

So there’s going to be some challenges in our view at the headline space. And again, it comes back to the big mega cap tech having a big weight in the indices. And if they struggle and they decline, then the overall market could feel that as well.

On the flip side, some of the smaller not only companies, but the smaller weighted exposures or indices, sorry, the smaller weighted sectors or industries in the market are very attractive. And there’s a sort of a margin of safety and a cushion there in terms of what they could experience in that type of a market. And so we really like a lot of the exposures in that place.

So to answer your question, to answer your question, we think that, you know, this could be a longer term type of a situation that might be putting pressure on stocks. OK. Yeah.

Thanks for laying that out. It’s quite interesting to hear that perspective. So do you see this being a U.S. phenomenon or do you see this sort of affecting? Because I guess if we look at the past for the past decade, really, and especially past few years, U.S. has outperformed.

So do you see this being sort of a global phenomenon or mainly U.S. centric? I think the pressure on equities in generally will start in the U.S. We are a global market. And so you will see that pressure building in the other places. But here’s the difference.

The other places are already very attractively priced. They’re priced really, really low because the bad news is already in them. They’re not seen as attractive places to be.

And the U.S. narrative of the U.S. exceptionalism is very, very strong. This is the first time markets are very cyclical. So if we go back to the 1990s, you know, I started in the business in the late 90s.

And I remember being in meetings where at that time I was talking about emerging markets being attractive or international markets being attractive. And the responses were generally, well, why would we want to do that when we can invest in these high quality U.S. based companies that have these strong balance sheets? Is this really growth that we’re experiencing and all that, all the stuff that we’re hearing now? And then the ensuing decade, you saw a reverse of that where the U.S. actually underperformed the non-U.S. markets. And so it’s not just equities aren’t just driven by the pure market returns or the values that are being delivered through the companies and their earnings and valuations and multiples.

But it’s also a function of the difference in monetary policy, the difference in interest rate policy, which then impacts currencies as well. So one of the sort of building blocks or factors that becomes really important in non-U.S. markets doing better than the U.S. is a flat to declining dollar. And, you know, the dollar is the king right now.

King dollar is allowed for a lot of U.S. based assets to do well. And as a result of that, the U.S. exceptionalism story in the markets, it continues to reverberate. But if you get into an environment where you have an economic slowdown and the Fed then starts to loosen up and cut rates or tries QE once more, then you could see a dollar that’s, you know, becomes stable or or begins to decline against non-U.S. markets.

And that in that environment, you do see those markets tend to do better. So this challenge that we think is going to occur with the markets going forward is we think it won’t be just U.S. centric. It will probably expand the world because we are so interconnected.

But we think that the epicenter of this will be the U.S. because of what’s going on. Not only U.S. investors are invested in U.S. large cap mega mega companies like the big tech companies, but non-U.S. investors are as well. So there’s a lot of money flow that’s been in the U.S. coming into the U.S. And when that reverses, you could see the velocity of that kick up on the other direction.

And that is on top of what we think is probably underappreciated amount of leverage that’s in the financial markets. We think it’s a highly levered market. And one sort of sample of that, you could say, is what happened on the Monday after DeepSeek.

DeepSeek information news comes out over the weekend and Monday saw a massive sell off. And the NVIDIA, the second largest company in the world, was down 17 percent one day. I mean, that that speaks volumes about the the leverage that’s in the system.

And so we think that there’ll be this pressure that may come from the leverage, which could see an immediate sort of a larger degree type of a sell off. And then it’s going to be probably a fundamentally driven slow grind for U.S. markets, except for the ones that are actually improving and doing well, kind of places that we’re interested in. Yeah, it’s really interesting, because if I think about what you’re saying, you know, you’re saying you think emerging markets could form, you know, tech may be weak.

And then, you know, we haven’t gotten to it yet. But spoiler, commodities is sort of where you think could outperform as well. It does really feel like it’s sort of post dotcom bubble where, you know, if you think about the 2000s, that’s really, as you said, emerging markets do quite well.

Commodities were extremely well, extremely well as well. I guess the U.S. did well in that in that scenario, but not as well as those those other assets. So I do see some similarities.

Yeah, we do, too. And I actually wrote a paper a couple of months ago called The 1972 Market is Partying Like It’s 1999. And that sounds pretty ominous, but it’s just highlighting the high degree of expectations and the euphoria, if you will, that’s baked into these really exceptional companies.

They’re monopolies are fantastic. They’re amazing companies and they’re going to continue to do well. But the valuations are different and there are periods where the market can decide that it’s not interested in multiple expansion.

It’s more focused on profitability and the sustainability of that profitability and cost of capital becomes important. And when that happens, then multiple compression becomes the name of the game. And you can you can see that happening in those types of names.

Now, I want to be careful to say we’re not bearish bearish. We’re very, very bullish in the other names that we are in, you know, places like commodity oriented companies and sectors. And so what we manage is a thematic oriented strategy that focuses on what we think is going to be the next big major theme on a secular basis.

That’s going to dominate the market, not for a month, not for three months, not for a quarter or so, but for several years on end. And we think the the next big major theme has already begun. And that is a commodity super cycle.

We think it began in earnest right after we came out of lockdown. Once the world was unleashed and we were able to get out and do what we needed to do or wanted to do, you saw the supply chain constraints being under pressure that had immediate pressures on inflation, but also commodity prices because there were earlier markdown and mark for obsolescence that we weren’t going to need them. We’re in the digitized world.

And who needs these dirty, grimy, unfriendly commodities when we have our digital devices and software? And that’s all we need. I think the world realized in 2021 and onwards that without those commodities, the stuff that comes out of the ground and when you look around us, you look around wherever you are, wherever you may be, look around you and realize that everything that’s around you, that you’re consuming, that you’re using came from the ground. And that is a sort of an epiphany I think the world had.

And so commodities have become important again. And whenever you have a new bull market starting, it’s not clear as day. It’s not linear.

It does have its choppiness. It has fits and starts. But we think it already began with oil starting it and then gold carrying it on for now.

But we think that when it kicks in in earnest, all of the commodity space and complexes is going to enjoy some continued gains and do well. Much like we saw in the 2000s, because the world was growing, there was globalization and increasing demand. And combined with what we saw in the 70s, where it was more driven by either shortages or deficits or supply shocks or outright inflation.

So we think we might see a combination of that in this coming cycle. And so we’re allocated to things that we think are going to do well. The equities in that space in, for example, oil and gas, in uranium, in gold.

We definitely have a lot of gold in our strategy, not only the metal, but also the mining stocks. And then also, as we continue to build the world, as we now reindustrialize America and want to rebuild our capabilities here, you’re going to need a lot of copper. Forget the electrification part.

That’s a good foundational story as well. But the additional underappreciated part of copper is that we’re going to need a lot more of it going forward in the world as we continue to grow. And then lastly, in order to help facilitate all of that, we’re going to need to have industrial companies and some broad commodities to help build those factories and build that infrastructure that we’re going to need to recreate.

Okay. Yeah. And really interesting to hear your perspective on that.

It does seem to be quite a prevalent trend. And when do you see this starting? Was this sort of a post-COVID shift away? Do you see this earlier? And what do you think the catalysts of this super cycle have been? Other than that, I guess there must be something that sort of has driven it to be so weak. That’s a great question because this stuff was cheap for a while.

So what drove it? What triggered it? An old phrase comes to mind that valuation is not a catalyst. It’s a condition. And so you need a catalyst for things that are beaten down, unattractive, or sorry, attractive, but beaten down and underappreciated.

So for sure. And we think that the catalyst really was the end of the lockdowns that triggered the need for energy and oil and gas. As much as we think that the world is in the transition phase, we actually show this chart regularly in our presentation, which is the overall growth of energy consumption around the world.

And that oil and gas is very, very confidently a big part of that. And it continues to grow as a big part of that. And so that need for oil and gas, for a lot of the baseload stuff, which is more industrial and heavy usage, just kickstarted that.

And the bigger catalyst, sort of the foundational catalyst was inflation. And so inflation is a big piece of what our forward looking view is. We think that it isn’t dead.

As I mentioned earlier, we think it’s dormant. And what you’ve seen since that initial catalyst, the big jump in oil and energy and doing well, you’ve had sequential moves from that to other parts of the commodity complex. And then gold became an important part of the investment landscape.

Not that it wasn’t before, but it started to catch the eye of people who might not be paying attention. We’ve been long gold investors, so we’ve had that in our strategy for a long time because of our longer held views of what it can and does provide to a portfolio. And so the catalyst for gold, even though it had been creeping up and gradually doing well throughout the pandemic period, the real catalyst for gold was in March of 22 with the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

And it’s a clear jump. So you can see the buying of central banks of gold at one level. And then immediately after that invasion, the level jumps.

And so to us, that’s the beginning of this new gold cycle, which we think we’re still in the midst of. There’s a lot more to go in that space between not only the geopolitical side, but also the potential for continued stress and pressures from a fiscally challenged Western world with budgets and everything. And so all of that is continuing to push demand for gold.

So far, the majority of the buying and interest in gold has been from overseas investors, particularly China and the rest of Asia. But now it looks like because of the price movement and sort of how it’s persisted, despite the Western based investors not being as interested, we think that now they’re beginning to turn to it. And you could see the next big sort of impulse and leg to it moving forward.

So catalysts we definitely need. And then one other catalyst that might be on the horizon for for oil and natural gas could be. The underappreciation of how you need to continue to invest in the productive capacity of those type of capability.

So oil fields need to be continued to harvest it or dug up and created. You need new new discoveries and investing in that. And so if if we are not investing in it as much, there is a natural decline that occurs.

And that’s underappreciated by the market because the market is continually focused on high supply and steady to low demand. And we think that that’s not an accurate view. And that will change in the coming months, quarters, years as that evolves.

And we’re going to see a rebating of that. And then the last catalyst I’ll talk about is uranium. For the longest time, uranium was underappreciated.

Nuclear energy was marked for dead post Fukushima disaster. It looked like we were headed towards a world where the world was going to continue to wind down its nuclear power energy capabilities. And that changed.

And it changed because the realization was that we need the strong base load. And if you need a strong base load and you don’t want carbon emissions, then the best source alternative for that is actually nuclear. And so you started to get that.

And the big catalyst for nuclear was the big tech companies getting in on the game because of their high energy needs. And we think that that’s going to be continuing on. That will still be something that just gradually grinds higher as the production versus the need for uranium continues to diverge.

And the need will continue to outstrip the actual supply. Yeah, OK. Yeah.

Again, a lot of time back there. And I think there’s a great quote about sort of the importance of energy that I had. I took out of your pack and I’ve got it right here.

So I’m going to read it. Energy is the only universal currency. One of its many forms must be transformed to another in order for stars to shine, planets to rotate, plants to grow and civilization to evolve by Vaclav Smil.

So, yeah, it’s really it just shows you, you know, energy is life. It’s extremely important. I think we’ve sort of taken it for granted.

And, you know, for example, you mentioned that there’s a decline rate and you have to continue to invest. So I think it’s on average, you know, I’m pretty sure this might be for oil 5 percent every year. So you have to and it depends on the type of, you know, if it’s fracking, it’s going to be a lot quicker.

If it’s sort of deep water, it’s going to be less. So it really depends on the type of type of energy. But are you concerned? So if I think about the energy market, maybe I’ll push it back on you.

There’s quite a lot of excess capacity in Saudi Arabia, sort of about four million barrels a day that they’re not producing, which they could be. If I think about LNG, there’s quite a lot of and this is obviously different to gas, but there is quite a lot of sort of supply coming online and 26, 27 with Golden Pass and in the U.S. is sort of some Russian supply as well. And if that conflict were to be resolved and there’s a heap of gas coming, coming to Europe potentially.

So how do you take that into account? Yeah, I mean, those are all very important considerations because ultimately that impacts the supply and demand mix. I think a few things that are really important to consider. Number one, that story.

It is already out there, it’s already in the price, we would argue, and we think that the market is appreciating perhaps the other side of the story, which is despite having that ability to produce more OPEC led by Saudi has still maintained supply discipline. Number one. Number two, in the last big oil energy bust that occurred in the 2014 timeframe, oil companies in the West, in the U.S., they overdid it.

Right. They overproduced, over drilled. There wasn’t a hole that they weren’t interested in drilling to see if they could get gas or oil out of it.

And that was a very, very painful period. And I think they’ve learned. So there seems to be a little bit more discipline on the production side by not only OPEC, but also U.S. producers.

So that’s really an important piece as it pertains to natural gas. One thing to really think about is sort of the price differentials around the world. Now, my theory is oil has been around for so long that it is a well-established global market.

So pricing is very, very efficient. Right. If you need something from X, Y and Z location to ABC location, that’s very easily priced.

There’s already mechanisms there to to load it, move it, ship it and get it where it needs to go and and refine it and get it to the ultimate need source where the ultimate need of where it is. On the natural gas side, it’s still a more regional type of a market where you have a big delta between U.S. prices because there’s so much of it here and a much bigger price in Asia because there’s not as much or they’re not producing as much. And so they’re willing to pay a lot more for it.

And so our view is that over time and obviously we’ve already begun to see that with the the the enormous mobilization that U.S. based companies have done, building LNG capabilities, building LNG terminals and beginning to ship that. We think that you’re going to see a we’re in the early stages of a global natural gas market emerging. What you’re going to see is sort of like this convergence of pricing.

And so for U.S. natural gas producers, that’s still a good deal where they’re able to export out to, you know, markets and areas that are that are more than willing to pay a higher price with if there’s a ceasefire and Russia gas begins to come back to Europe and the and the pipes are turned on again. Yeah, that would have an immediate impact. But we think that on a longer term basis, the structural shift of natural gas become going from a localized commodity to a more globalized market with a global market.

I think that’s inevitable and that’s just going to continue and sort of the structural players who are involved in that conversion and shipping and not to mention, you know, some of those who are doing that and and extracting it. I think they’re all going to do extremely well. And the last thing I’ll mention is on the oil front.

You know, the headline is the narrative is we are in the U.S. producing so much oil. We don’t need anybody else. We’re energy independent.

And the reality is ultimately there’s a bottleneck and the bottleneck is the refineries. So you can only refine the kind of oil that the refineries have been set up for. Not all refineries are set up to be able to refine every kind of oil.

And as you know, Anthony, that the U.S. based refineries are set up to refine a certain type of oil, whether it’s more sour or in the Midwestern states and, you know, more Canadian type of oil or a little bit more sweeter oil that’s in the south and in the Gulf states. So there’s a mixture of that. And all that tells me is that we are producing one type of oil and that might not be everything that we can actually refine.

So there’s always going to be this trade and need for overseas oil. So case in point, you know, Canada has become the largest exporter of oil to the U.S. because those refineries closer to Canada are set up to process that type of oil. And so if we if we stop that oil from coming in or if we raise the price of that oil as it comes in, then those refineries are going to feel that cost pressure and ultimately it’s going to be passed on to the consumer.

So there’s some inflation embedded in there. But I think the true independence of like one country completely on its own cut off from the rest of the world in this space, in the oil space is very, very challenging to execute. And we’re certainly not there.

Yeah, I think I learned recently that there hasn’t been a new refiner in the U.S. since the 70s or something. So they’re sort of built to not for the U.S. sort of production, because there wasn’t as much production back then, but for other types of oils. And that’s the challenge that you mentioned there, having to sort of blend the Canadian heavy oils with it as well.

Yeah, yeah. But no, it’s really interesting. And so I guess, you know, when you are looking to analyze these companies to invest in, what are the key things that you’re looking at? I guess this is probably been a long journey.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

So I’ve been working on this framework for a long time. And as we were developing it, it really comes back to what I mentioned earlier. So the foundation is identifying what we think is going to be the big secular mega theme and then build some sub themes around it.

So as I mentioned, energy is life, era of geopolitical tensions and fiscal risks, and then building the future and reindustrializing America. So we’re going to need all those commodities. OK, well, how do you implement that? Well, we would prefer to get it through equities because equities have operating leverage.

They can utilize financial leverage and they can do better than just getting access to the commodity itself. And there’s this continuity of business, the continuity of investment, whereas, you know, investing in commodities directly can have all sorts of other challenges as well in terms of role and structure and all those things. And not to mention, they’re much more volatile and they trade on big, you know, and can trade pretty rapidly on smaller news and whatnot.

So we prefer equities, number one. Number two, what type of equities is sort of a barbell strategy in our portfolio? On the one side, we want to be in the majors because as a theme emerges, matures and becomes the big mega theme that everybody’s investing in. A lot of the the headline investors, a lot of the, you know, the tourists, if you will, they’re going to be investing in the bigger names either through an ETF, which is cap weighted or just looking at the big operators and investing in that.

So you want to be definitely exposed to the majors because they’re going to benefit. Not only are they going to benefit at the headline level, they’re also bigger companies, better balance sheets, more stable, higher quality and more stability of income and earnings. So all of that becomes very important.

And that’s, I would say, is a bigger part of our portfolio because we want to be able to get the theme right and not get any individual stock idiosyncratic risk wrong. So that’s on the one side of the barbell. The other side is to identify companies that we think are extremely cheap and for whatever reason, they either had some management challenges or some structural challenges where they were struggling in the past.

And we think that either through new management or new strategy or a new approach and obviously with the backdrop of a rising commodity in wherever space they’re operating in, that gives them the ability to significantly improve their standing. And to us, that’s the possibility of a re-rating of a stock that’s either marked for mediocrity or marked for death to become really, really good. Now, that’s a smaller part of the portfolio because those are by definition, as you would think about it, a little bit more volatile and a little bit more risky from that standpoint.

But the valuations are very cheap. And so a lot of the bad news is already baked into the price. And so we feel comfortable that we can own these and enjoy the re-rating upwards as that happens.

So it’s a bit of both, but more emphasis on the higher quality of the majors. Yeah. Interesting way to look at it.

And I guess what are some red flags that you’re sort of looking for when looking at these companies? So the red flags would be, you know, first and foremost, are they in the space that we want to be in? If they are, are they shareholder friendly? Is management on board with what needs to be done in terms of deploying capital appropriately and making sure that they’re doing the right thing by the shareholders? So those things become important. And then also, do they have a strategy that we can get behind and have confidence in that they can execute on that strategy? And just like most companies in any sector, you know, not every company is able to or management is able to execute and get it right. So that becomes an important consideration in us picking where we put our emphasis on.

OK, really interesting. So we’ll see. Thanks so much for your time today.

Really, I feel like we could talk hours about this and I guess the theme and the companies you’re looking at. But my last question is, what is one message you want people to take away from that conversation? Yeah, I would say the one message is to realize that markets are cyclical and no one environment or regime is going to last forever. So the idea that one type of investment or one type of a asset class or style is if it’s in favor, that it’s going to be there forever is not true.

It just doesn’t happen that way. Markets are cyclical. So to be alert to the risks of what you’re paying and be alert to the idea that it might be under challenge when it does begin to reflect the bad news that might not be in the price and that the opportunity might be elsewhere.

So be open to the idea that markets are cyclical, number one, and just be comfortable with what you’re doing. Understand who you are as an investor and be honest about that and see what you’re good at and what you’re not good at and find the right strategy that might fit for you from that standpoint. Yeah, great message.

Thanks again for your time. If anyone wanted to find out more about your work and what you do, where would the best place be? Yeah, so the best place is Sarmaya Partners. That’s S-A-R-M-A-Y-A-Partners.com. That’s our website.

We launched an ETF two weeks ago and the website for that is SarmayaETF.com. And between those two places, you can find everything about us and what we’re doing. And I’m on LinkedIn pretty active and I’m also on Twitter. And you can find me under my name if you type in Wasif Lateef, you’re sure to find me on both of those platforms.

And I’m also on Substack as well. It’s a great place to get connected with people and share with them your thoughts and have sort of this long form type of a place where some good people, good writers, a lot of good thinkers and ideas. Hey, everyone.

Thank you for listening. I really appreciate the support. If you got value out of this, I’d really appreciate it if you could like, subscribe or comment, you know, good or bad feedback.

I’m always open to that. But it really helps to the channel. As I said before, only about 14% of people actually subscribe to this channel.

So if you work to that, it would really help. It could mean we could continue to grow. If not, thanks for watching and see you on the next show.

And you also might like this video right here. All right. Thanks again.