The USA & China Nuclear War Won’t Be What You Think (Uncut) 02-23-2025

we might be watching the rise of the world’s first private energy Empires big data and AI companies the biggest in the world are now investing in energy production directly in the form of nuclear now this horizontal marriage between big data and energy would create a paradigm shift greater than anything we’ve ever seen this would be the biggest geopolitical and economic headline in a century I firmly believe that welcome to the J Martin Show where we dis ECT the greatest Minds in geopolitics and finance my guest today

is Scott Melby now Scott is a veteran of the nuclear sector he previously served as president of camoo USA and presently serves as president of uranium royalty Corp he’s coming in from Washington today he was recently at the inauguration he is up close and personal with the decision makers in the White House and more on the street than anybody I know when it comes to nuclear adoption and Trends whether that’s big Tech in investing capital or nuclear build outs in China and America today we get into all of it fascinating

conversation with Scott Melby I know you’re going to enjoy this one this is J Martin all right here I am with Scott melie Scott it’s great to see you again thanks for coming on the show today Jay it’s always a pleasure uh getting together with you and especially right now with so many exciting things happening in in uranium and nuclear space yeah B big shifts so I want to talk about about all of that there’s like seven different directions I want to go with you today uh and you’re definitely the guy to talk to about this

before we get into that you’re in Washington right now you were also there a couple weeks ago for the inauguration what was that like I just I’m so curious for you I was watching from a distance obviously all the highlights and all of this what was it like to be there in that moment yeah I mean obviously you know incredible uh honor and and exciting to to be there and see it all come together and and that transition of power but I think you know what’s happened in the week since then is probably even more amazing and it’s the

pace at which president Trump and his administration is moving forward on so many fronts and you saw all the executive orders that were put out you know literally the afternoon of of the inauguration um including you know uh those impacting energy and uranium uh it should be noted that you know the president is direct seeing the US Geological Survey to put uranium back on the critical minerals list which is very important for miners developers to to move forward here in the US more quickly but yeah I just um you know it’s it’s

light speed changes and I think as uh these cabinet uh secretaries you know get their confirmation votes through the Senate and they find their seats and then now then they really start moving on executing and the the message around energy right now it’s all about energy dominance and for your viewers probably most important like for for us in uranium world energy dominance in a trump Administration means producing enough domestic energy energy domestically that we’re not reliant on foreign sources of of energy

and we’re so abundant in in that production of domestic energy that we’re able to export obviously largely LNG to um Allied countries in Europe and and Asia and so when you break that down to the electricity sector um this is really going to favor natural gas and nuclear and I know that’s a bit of change from you know the Biden Administration came around and warmed um really became proponents of nuclear power over the course of four years um it was for a different driver for them it was nuclear

Energy’s role as a non-carbon emitting basad source of power that could operate along side wind and solar in a trump Administration it’s more about abundance energy abundance affordable reliable resilient energy and um you know thank god um that that we’re embarking on a pro-energy policy uh at this particular time because all of a sudden America needs new um generating sources of electricity we haven’t had electric demand growth in the US since the early 2000s and now um we’re seeing exponential go just you

know forget about the AI data centers which is a huge huge driver but just even before that we have electric vehicles and electrification of homes and businesses and you put the data center demand and it’s really just the cherry on top but it’s um really a whole CH change in mindset that we’ve been in for for many years and that’s on top of the energy growth that we have been seeing from the developing world where you know we’ve been building big reactors around the world to address needs in China India and elsewhere now

the developed world is jumping on board and that really favors you build out of nuclear power or valuing nuclear power you mentioned um companies like Amazon Google Microsoft are valuing electricity from nuclear powers to such a degree that they’re going uh to existing nuclear power plants trying to buy the power behind the meter to collocate next to the plant to take that electricity before it hits the Grid or restart idled reactors like Three Mile Island Dwayne Arnold Palisades um so we’re in a A

Whole New World of of energy in the United States and uh really I think favors uh nuclear energy uh to a large degree it’s it’s exciting times so yeah and two major threads I want to pull on there and the first is just you referenced you us the word light speed like three times you know and that really struck me because the goal is energy abundance absolute Independence and obviously if if you can you know the cost of energy determines everything else and we need a production miracle in the United States right now that’s only

going to occur if we have access to you know base load cheap energy in abundance um now I I try to view the you know the geopol the geopolitical chessboard has been reshuffled over the last four years in a major way and we’ve seen a variety of symptoms including hot conflicts SP I I tend to look at everything through the lens of us China competitiveness right now yeah um almost everything now when I think about this scenario that you just discussed through that lens I think about the competition for uh cheap base

load efficient energy sources and when we think about nuclear how does the US and China stack up right now because you could say like you know China’s got 27 facilities under production 150 planned um claims that they’re 10 15 years ahead of the United States in terms of nuclear adoption but what’s your take Scott what do you yeah I mean listen the the US Remains the largest nuclear energy uh country it’s 20% of our electricity from the 93 or so reactors that are in operation but the the rate of growth

that we’re seeing in China they will surpass the US and installed nuclear capacity by the end of the decade so they are taking it very seriously and they are you know again they’re coming from the developing world to where you know they needed to get um you know a level of Base load power up to deliver a you know basic uh electric needs to Millions uh billions uh you know of Chinese so um you know they do have a jump on nuclear but I think where I’m seeing American nuclear energy leadership um get back on track is

really with Advanced and small modular reactors it doesn’t mean that we won’t build big reactors here and a broad West house obviously um very big in in that space But I think companies like new scale Terra power x energy oako um these are all companies that you know the US is very good at small modular reactors we have 104 of them in 84 aircraft carriers and submarines and they’ve operated safely and effectively and efficiently since the 1950s and so um you know I I don’t see it being a stretch that we can locate these on land

in applic that range from desalination of water uh process heat electricity for refineries um driving you know data center electrical demands um and so you know we we really have uh that ability to not only build those here in the United States but I think make a a big presence abroad and you’re seeing in in really attractive markets like Central Europe Poland Czech Republic Romania I think you’ll see the US make a real concerted effort and part of that is fuel cycle we can’t sell these reactors

around the world and then say oh sorry go get your fuel from Russia we’ve got to have American uranium conversion enrichment to go along you know with with these American uh small modular Advanced reactors right okay so even though maybe for the last few years America’s been sleeping at the wheel in terms of new nuclear generation relative to China um the new Administration is clearing the path right uh the new president uh Chris Wright Secretary of Energy you know clearing the path and Expediting these

processes categorizing uranium as a critical metal now and fast-tracking a lot of this activity yeah and the you know the advance act that passed at the end of the Biden Administration was a good first step in streamlining uh the NRC in the licensing and approval I mean um a lot of these Tech Giants that have come into our our space like Peter teal Elon Elon Musk is a good example I mean here’s a guy who can design a rocket that goes into space and he can land it back on on the Launchpad from where it came they look

at a small modular Advanced reaction go well that’s really cool but it’s frankly a pretty simple machine it should be licensed in two years not eight years and so you know if we look at it um you we just have to we can’t do it the way we’ve done it in the past we can’t go you know these things can’t be double the time to build and O over budget um we’ve got to get our act together together and build these uh quickly because one we need the demand that the demand is urgent we suddenly are facing

energy needs that we haven’t seen in in a couple decades so um I think it’s great I mean but the Chinese are also you know that means that they’re also becoming huge consumers of uranium and so we’re in a global resource competition call it a war if you want with the Chinese and the Russians uh on you know Global uranium supplies and you know think if you look at the uranium market today if there was perfect mobility of uranium and there was no geopolitics we already have a significant 500 million pound gap

between now and 2035 you know maybe 40 50 million in the immediate year or two between what we consume and what we produce globally um but if you break that into kind of the bifurcation of the uranium Market along bricks and or east or Western lines um it gets even maybe more pronounced for the West than the East I mean the good news for China and Russia is Kazakhstan is largely falling into their Camp all of their production is is is eventually going to be consumed by China and Russia we already see steps

that they’re taking to make that a reality now the good news is in the west we have Canada and the United States and Australia all countries that um you know have under produced over what their potential can and should be so um you know I think it’s just um we’ve got to be mindful that you know Utilities in the United States uh may not think that they’re competing with China but they are because China’s taking supplies off off the table that might have been available to come to Europe or the United States and uh but U you know

there’s good things happening in uranium space I think in saskatch and Canada there should be a doubling of uranium production in the next 10 years in the United States we see six companies um have restarted or in uranium operations and ramping up so uh good things are happening but there needs to be a lot more growth because we got to close that Gap in a fairly short period of time there’s definitely a shift in sentiment uh since this most recent election and a sense of optimism uh and the Innovative

Spirit and the entrepreneurial spirit that I I I see a Resurgence of in in the United States right now do you think that’s Justified there’s a bit of a new energy and you you mentioned new entrepreneurs playing an influential role in Expediting processes that until recently have taken way longer than necessary yeah I mean and nothing against my colleagues uh you know that I’ve worked together with for 41 years in the uranium and nuclear energy industry but some of them you know just can’t get their head around this new

this new reality and I think the best thing that’s ever happened to the nuclear industry is have people like Peter teal Bill Gates Elon Musk come in um you know there’s been remarks by um some of the folks involved with Peter thel and Founders fund people that were involved in SpaceX and you know I’m sure people told Elon Musk that only NASA can send people into space um you know it’s not possible you know for for Private Industry to have a role well he proved that wrong and I think they want to do

to nuclear energy and in some cases the nuclear fuel cycle um what they did to SpaceX and I find that really positive because they’re bringing fresh energy ideas Innovation and capital yeah so that’s sort of the privatization of a previously Public Service which you touched on uh at the front end here we touched on Microsoft uh Amazon um Google meta all making or trying to make investments in nuclear power generation directly meaning in some sense they’re circumventing the grid going direct to the source to

create their own power supply and just expedite this process is that is that how I’m reading correctly yeah I mean uh if there I guess the way you look at it if they’re willing to go behind the grid to grab that nuclear electricity you know to power their their business and that’s the only thing that stands between them and multi-trillion dollar market caps um they’re going to do whatever it takes to to secure their own energy I wonder how long it will take for that to trickle into the nuclear fuel cycle where okay if they’re willing

to do that they’re also not going to just um throw themselves to the whims of the future uranium market and they will be buyers of of nuclear fuel or companies that produce uranium conversion enrichment in very short time and that changes the Paradigm in the uranium Market where the utility the electric utility company has been at the top of the food chain um and and calling all the shots you know in terms of the market but they’re now going to have competition from uh from some of these hyperscalers who are are now uh coming

into the nuclear energy business so that seems to me like a massive paradigm shift on par with like the Industrial Revolution one of those moments where you unlock so much productivity all at once the world takes a while to adjust and everything changes right here we have the uh you know we have the marriage of of data big data and AI potentially merging with energy right and that’s something that I don’t think has ever happened before therefore it’s tough for us to W wrap our mind around the implications but that is sort of the

you know the the the maybe the new era of the private energy Empires on the back of meta what what’s your take Scott yeah no and absolutely and I think you know if if if the message if you could sum up the message from president Trump to our Industries and I would say you know to the natural gas oil and gas industry and and the nuclear energy industry is you know get ready you know let’s go it’s it’s it’s time to build and and grow our our capabilities and it’s very exciting on on the uranium side we’re you know we’re going into

what could be a hypergrowth period already in deficit so you know at uranium royalty Corp to have founded the company when we did and take you know sitting now with 24 royalty interests on 21 projects um and you know have even if we didn’t sign another royalty deal again today you know going forward we have a very you know uh nice visibility to cash flow over you know each three years we see the cash flow um from our existing royalty portfolio doubling and so uh but that we’re not sitting on our

hands we’re actually very aggressively going out and trying to find more royalties you know on companies that are going to be the ones that fill this Gap and they might in Africa or Australia Canada us wherever they are URC I’m headed to Cape Town South Africa tomorrow uh to attend Ina and meet with all of the African uranium producers and see what we what can we do what do you need to get into production is it 25 50 100 million Capital um we’ll provide it in the form of a royalty and stream and

allow them to either get into production or move closer towards production but um it’s very exciting because we need a lot of of a lot of new mines built many of them need to be online between now and 2030 it’s a pretty high order uh but the Gap Is that real in the near term yeah and so you’re out there allocating Capital to these projects you’ve got royalties on you know the highest grade uranium m in the world being MacArthur river right and also scar Lake the chical projects uh I want to dig into

that business model a little bit actually one question uh before I get there though going back to the private energy Empire concept um you could see a response from the government that would say we can’t allow these monopolies to grow to sort of horizontally expand into energy right they’ve got data they’re building out AI if we allow them to expand into into energy we’re going to lose control right and that is a threat that maybe a politician would be scared of the Counterpoint would be you know

free market Enterprise and Entrepreneurship is what makes America great I mean truly you know and allowing those uh paths to be carved could be what America needs more than anything in the world but what what’s your take yeah well I mean this is being fought over with FK and the Amazon transaction with Talon energy where FK is saying hey wait a minute this is not in the public interest uh for you guys take even a portion of that uh electricity for your own needs but um you know I think Talon has a really strong argument as to why

that does you know is legal and and and uh I think they’ll Prevail on on that but no matter what happens there the Dem the energy demand doesn’t go away I mean Amazon’s either going to have to buy electricity off the grid that Talon supplies onto the grid and then buy it or buy a portion of the generating uh capacity that Talon already has the demand is there it’s just how it finds the market and I think you know Microsoft when they restart Three Mile Island um that’s their you know that’s their output that was a plant that was

shut in and fully amortised and and was gone and so you know I think Dwayne Arnold and Iowa will be another one that moves forward we’re now seeing people talking about Reviving The VC summer uh AP 1000s that were being built in South Carolina and I I realize these are not easy or or you these are really heavy lifts but that’s the lwh hanging fruit so that that’s what you go after first but if you can’t get any of the existing or partially completed reactors or restart of reactors then you you move on

on to um new small module advance and then you have companies like oklo that announced um they’re going to partner with a gas provider in Texas and really bridge this need for data center electricity with gas and nuclear together what a great concept and and in a state that’s obviously has a lot of natural gas and is very eager to see nuclear being built down in Texas we see the Texas nuclear Alliance very active in drawing a lot of this new build uh to Texas because you also get the economic uh boost when when you you draw these

businesses to to to those States yeah okay so you know sentiment moving a certain direction demand is definitely moving a certain direction you were at cop 28 uh where I think the Net Zero what was the Net Zero nuclear pledge was made that effectively yeah the tripling by 20 uh 24 yeah okay yeah and that was like 22 countries that signed on including the United States to that commitment yeah right so you know that’s what are the obstacles that’s what I want to get to now because you know I want to get into

the investment case when these Paradigm shifts occur that’s when you you know your life can change if you play your cards right you know yeah well I mean you know when the tripling of nuclear power um goal was put out there I mean admittedly it’s an aspirational goal yeah but it doesn’t seem so aspirational now that you know we’re already on track to double nuclear capacity um just with the existing uh forces at at at play so getting it to a tripling you’re going to have to you know you’re going to have to

solve Workforce issues training of Engineers um capital is is obviously going to require a lot of capital but we’re seeing really positive steps there where you know recently end of last last year you saw a number of the global Banks come together and declare their support for the financing of new nuclear power programs and that’s big because I mean it wasn’t that long ago you know in Europe that you know nuclear was not considered a green sustainable energy investment and so it was really uh penalized in capital markets I mean we

were nuclear Investments were in the same category as you know gambling cigarettes and prostitution and and now suddenly were um you know very attractive place to to place to put Capital especially if you want carbon free energy in the mix and let’s remember that you know I mean obviously you know Trump Administration is more about energy dominance and having abundant reliable resilient energy but there still is half uh you know in the United States of people that still value clean energy so I I think we shouldn’t

lose sight of that fact that nuclear delivers both we can yeah deliver the Abundant energy and it’s also carbon free so uh we do have a bit of a bipartisan advantages there that even gas doesn’t uh enjoy yeah and I think more people are realizing that the promise that was made on behalf of renewable energy uh has a lot of problems with it mainly that you know China is the world’s top solar and Battery producer and those factories are powered by coal uh you know those materials need tons of nickel Indonesia

is the world’s largest exporter and they’ve doubled their coal consumption in order to meet nickel smelting demands so there’s this weird Paradox that’s occurred and is now surfacing and people are beginning to realize like we were we had this Vision but you know the path there is far rockier than we thought it was going to be and far dirtier than we thought it was going to be and so you know you don’t always get it right like you know you got to try you gotta iterate the plan and and pivot right and

I think this is a pivotal moment well the big thing I mean with Renewables is um why did we think it could be 100% of our our energy Supply I mean they run they’re intermittent by Nature right they run 25 to 30% of the time and unless you want to carpet the entire uh face of the Earth with batteries to back up what is a very inefficient way to generate electricity that doesn’t work and and so you know can it be a portion of of of energy Supply absolutely but you’re going to need Bas load especially

in economies that are growing and thriving um factories data centers they can’t have intermittent power they need 247 so yeah it’s just um you know we’re we’re in a fortunate Sweet Spot in that you know um we’re favored by both the left and the right today for different reasons but um we’ll we’ll take the support and you see it you see it in legislation in the US and you’ll continue to see support for nuclear in the new Administration it doesn’t uh change uh now that Trump uh is is in the White House in fact it it probably can

accelerate yeah no no doubt you touched on that and the and the lifespan as well of of these of this infrastructure right what’s the lifespan of a windmill I think it’s around 20 years like it’s not that long you know and then we got to make more of them uh no one’s talking about what you know I drive from LA to Palm Springs and I see the original wind turbin that were put up in probably the 70s they’re still there and they’re all broken down and rusting and no one’s cleaning them up it’s like what what

industry gets to like do their thing and then just leave their mess zero the wind the wind power industry can right so yeah they they you know they have land use issues they have listen the wildlife uh not just birds and birds of prey and Eagles um but you’re seeing offshore wind being really damaging to to the whale populations there which I thought I’d never live long enough to see the people that were going to save the whales when I was a kid are now killing the whales with offshore winds so i’ I’ve we’ve gone complete circle

now there it is all right so you know I I firmly believe we’ll only really pivot major industries especially something as big as energy when the economic incentives are there to make that shift sustainable uh government subsidies won’t make it sustainable tax incentives won’t make it sustainable cultural sentiment is not enough to make it sustainable shift we’ll only stick to it if the economic incentive is there meaning the new thing is more cost effective than the current thing yeah so and we’ve seen that right uh from you

know human labor through to steam to Coal to oil the new thing was always more cost effective than the current thing that’s why we made that shift what can you tell me about the the cost effectiveness of you know uranium nuclear versus hydrocarbons as we’re using them today Scott yeah I mean listen full disclosure when you’re building a firstof aind small modular reactor that first one is going to be very expensive which is why you do see um governments like the United States Canada um UK all being very supportive

of those first demonstration projects but as they’re demonstrated and they are running and then you move to more of the Henry Ford economies of scale you know built in Factory shipped on site you know the next you know two 3 four five and you know the 10th one built you know can be very um uh costeffective compete with gas and everything else but there is a a curve here that um you know we’re going to have to overcome the first of aind units to get you know to to hit a stride but listen I think um we’re going

to need all the energy we can get and I think um you know that’s why I think natural gas will be immediate beneficiary but even you know in listening to that industry they have constraints with pipelines and and production and and maybe the gas isn’t always in the right part of the country where the energy is needed the most and weather issues and everything else so I think we’ve just got to um you know we’ve got to tackle these problems and I think if you have people like Bill Gates you know at Terra power you know selling

his first of aind reactor to people like Warren Buffett at Pacific Corp in in Wyoming that’s a good that’s a good first of a kind and um you know I think as they prove that up in Wyoming you’ll see Bill Gates be building these all around the world and certainly alongside their data centers but even beyond that and that’s the benefit of the private Enterprises you let the Bill Gates you let the Amazon you let them iterate those first uh projects right and figure out the more cost-effective models

determine those economies of scale so that we can move forward at scale and with speed but someone’s got to make those bets right yeah yeah absolutely and who better than the private sector definitely better than than the public yeah yeah okay so so um I want to talk about URC I want to talk about the investment case here Scott so everybody who watches my show you know we’re all retail investors that’s who I talk to that’s who I am I’m looking for the smartest home for my cash I see a a pivotal Moment Like This we’ve discussed

it as a paradigm shift I I believe that’s the case I think that the shift from towards nuclear especially driven by the world’s largest data data companies and wealthiest companies to expand into energy production could be the most uh most significant geopolitical and economic event uh that we’ve seen in decades right I I think that’s the case yeah okay you know Industrial Revolution um uh all over again um I want to be positioned properly and you have built a company called uranium royalty Corp that is ex

effectively trying to position properly right here so walk me through the business model uh how you’re positioned how you’re allocating capital and how you’re intending to leverage this transition yeah so you’ll recall we launched the company publicly in December of 2019 and subsequently listed on the NASDAQ which was a great move in terms of our trading liquidity but we didn’t want to reinvent the wheel we basically saw the success of Franco Nevada wheat and precious Sandstorm all these great royalty companies in the precious and

base Metals space so we we just took that model and brought it to uranium now it’s not as big a market um but we are the only ones purely focused on royalty and streaming in the uranium space so that does give us U an edge we understand uranium uh we understand the risks and the rewards better it doesn’t mean that you know royalty companies couldn’t interlope into particular royalty opportunities and we’ve seen that but I think we get the business and those risks better than someone who’s generally focused day-to-day on copper

or gold royalties and we also got in at a time where the industry was still very depressed I mean we weren’t out of the bare Market when we launched but what was great is all of the royalties that we acquired in our initial around the time of the IPO we all acquired we acquired all of those for Less than3 P to nav because it just the no one was valuing uranium assets um at that time and so now you know going forward industry’s recovered demand is is is strong and and the Gap is very real in production so

now it’s it’s really trying to identify what are the companies that are best situated to be to be filling this Gap in the next 5 10 years and listen if you can bring on a mine between now and be producing by 2030 you’re a bit of a unicorn I mean that’s that’s the sweet spot but and they are very few and far between but you know we are talking to the obvious uh companies that that fit that category and we’re also looking at some that really aren’t in anyone’s radar I mean we’re looking at byproduct uh operations where the main

commodity might be gold or copper or nickel and there’s uranium that could be produced as a byproduct but when uranium prices were low um it really wasn’t n um an issue but if we can come along and provide the financing to a byproduct producer to add a uranium circuit and we can you know take a portion or even all of the uranium output and and uh do that without impacting the balance sheet of the Minor’s Core Business that’s a good model and so you know we’re looking at opportunities like that but we’re also

you know the obvious um early movers in the uranium space that that need to come online there’s a number of others that you know um you may not be immediate producers or cash flowers but in a bull market that we’re in and going to continue to be in going forward their business models are going to really push ahead too so we’re not afraid to invest in companies that might not cash flow until 2030 that’s fine um but you know we we are we do recognize that investors want to see near-term cash flow growth and I

think if you know if I look at our current forecast of cash flow under our current portfolio if we didn’t do another deal um and and again I caution that all of the factors that determine these cash flows 100% of them are outside of our control we don’t operate those mines we don’t make the decisions and obviously the uranium price has has an impact as well but as we sit today the current portfolio is expected to cash flow around 10 million Canadian by 2027 um 30 million by 20 30 and 5050 Million by

2033 so um you know that’s a pretty nice um curve in in in growth in revenues and cash flow and it it’s not surprising I mean if you think about just take um the royalty we have on Ruff Rider which you know has found new life and meaning in uranium energy corpse portfolio rather than being kind of stuck in Rio tintos but we have a 2% Royal on that mine’s output which means we receive 2% of the value of that production as it comes out of the ground and if that’s a six to S million pound a year uranium producer say 2030 2031

onward um you begin to see you know in a 80 901 $120 uranium Market you begin to see how these cash flows really crystallize going forward it’s very important when looking at a royalty company to analyze their sort of fiveyear and 10-year plan because you can look at the current business model and miss the point that you’re allocating cash today for a future return you know uh I just want to spend a minute on that I have Randy Smallwood on the channel about once every six months so my audience is quite familiar

with the business model from a precious metal standpoint you know he’s a streaming company but it’s very similar to to what you do you’re allocating C you’re financing these projects today in exchange for a percent of the value they generate in the future from production um and the advantage to this that like the the Strategic advantage and competitive advantage that you have is that if commodity prices you do a deal today at current commodity prices and in the future if commodity prices go up you

benefit from that increased Revenue but sometimes commodity prices go up because we’re adjusting the measuring stick being US Dollars and inflating the currency and sometimes the commodity price goes up but the input costs go up as well you know and as a consequence you can see Rising prices of gold or uranium but margins don’t always reflect that if the input costs rise accordingly you’re protected from that because you do a deal today right and and you don’t carry any of the operating costs you

allocating cash today and you’re you’re generating that return when they’re in production so you’re protected from that it’s very important to recognize that that’s the magic of royalty and streaming and uh yeah I mean Legends like Randy Smallwood Pier Lon I mean these are spirit animals that are guiding this company and we just want to em we want to emulate what they’ve done in that space in in the uranium world and it is true I mean we do have some net profit interest um you know like the cigar Lake royalty is a net profit

interest so it still is working through some of the call it an expense bucket to get to that payout on the net profit interest but when it does and we weeks kind of depends how much they’re producing and what what that product’s being sold for but um they’re you know they’re getting to a point within two three years that could throw off four five million on its own the MacArthur River royalties a gross uh royalty on top which is is exactly what you’ve described and instead of getting a percentage of the value we actually get

pounds of uranium book transferred to our account at CH Port Hope Blind River facility so um yeah we we we definitely love the gross revenue new royalties over net profit interest because you are protected to capex blowups and inflation yeah okay so 24 royalty agreements right now and three or four are in production yeah so um McArthur River in in production scar Lake’s in production Langer Heinrich is in production we’re beginning to get it’s a smaller royalty there but we’re beginning to see cash

flow under that um probably the next one to start up will be the Lance mine um with Peninsula energy in Northeastern Wyoming um as they ramp up we have a 1% gross royalty on all the production and areas of the mine we have 5% coverage so you know if they produce a million pounds annually um we’re getting you know one to five% of of that uh value of that production so those are kind of um you know the the most immediate we’re beginning to see some of our we have a whole host of conventional mine royalties in the Colorado Plateau

of Utah Colorado New Mexico and Arizona and obviously with h strong markets and and also some of the added benefits of rare earth minerals and vadium in that part of the world um we’re seeing some of those mines now of Energy Fuels Western uranium uh anfield um and and others in in that uh part of the western United States so um you know some of the more recent uh Acquisitions I mean we’ve uh we did acquire um an interest on the Millennium deposit which is always mentioned as a future mine for cico you

know in in the next wave of Mine Development for cico in the aasa Basin to have an interest on millenniums great um you know Dawn lake is an expiration project but it is you know literally the extension of the hurricane deposit that ISO energy um you know has been uh so successfully drilling out and and so you just you got to look at it as a portfolio you have some near-term midterm and longer term cash flowing assets but you just keep adding and that’s you I’m asked what’s the most important thing I can do to create value

is is really just grow that portfolio and so hence the need to go to places like Perth Adelaide m uh Cape Town and and really make sure that we’re understanding you know what the industry needs in terms of capital you know I mean we’re competing with their debt and Equity sources of capital for project Finance but I think we you’ve seen I won’t name names but you know there’s been you know some Equity financings of new mind developments with massive dilution just kicked you know 25% off the share price of these companies that

have raised relatively small amount of money to see that kind of dilution we would like to say to those minors and developers hey especially in a stream with uranium at $90 or $100 a pound you don’t need to encumber a lot of your future production to get 2550 million today in financing with zero dilution and not all of the strings attached that debt financing or Bank financing would would come with yeah you’re a third option right yeah and at present the only one as you mentioned there’s no other Pure Play

uranium royalty companies that are doing this yet right yeah and you’ve got we won’t be forever if it’s such a great idea um you know but uh but there’s you know we we’ve been very disciplined too being the only player um you know I think we studied a lot of um kind of case studies of royalty companies what they did right what they did wrong um one of the the failures that I’ve seen um in those case studies was being too aggressive and overpaying for royalties I mean if it was just putting points on

the board mattered okay we could have 30 royalties by now but I think we have to be very disciplined um when we buy a royalty we’re not buying the company so you know it shouldn’t be at one times nav we’re not getting we’re not becoming a shareholder where we have a stake in the assets of the company that we’re investing in we’re investing in a portion of their output as a royalty holders so we’ve got to be very disciplined not overpay for royalties but we also have to be competitive with debt and Equity that’s the um that’s The

Sweet Spot that we’re all always constantly trying to find yeah and you’ve been very focused on North America I know we mentioned uh you know Langer Hinrich and Namibia um You’ got project in Spain I believe but the vast majority thus far has been Canada United States is that strategic because I know you’re now you’re off to South Africa tomorrow honestly it wasn’t intentional but in retrospect it’s great uh with geopolitics to have Canadian and American exposure with everything going on is great but we realize it’s a big

world out there and so I am spending uh well I mean we’re pursuing more opportunities in the US and Canada don’t get me wrong but um I am interested in you know Africa is an interesting continent where you know the geopolitics is all over the map um you know you see that the problems that they’ve been having in ner um you know so you know there’s countries that are investable in Africa and some that aren’t but we want to make sure that we understand we don’t miss any opportunities there because Canada

you know AUST Africa will contribute to this Market going forward Australia I think we’d love to have more exposure there and Australia really is underdeveloped frankly in in the global nuclear industry they so much uranium and and could be producing so much more but their politics of even on a state by state level have really held them back right right okay um and getting started in 2019 definitely uh definitely an advantage are you so walk me through the the mindset of the company right now Scott at URC because there’s you know

there’s Seasons to a royalty company where uh it’s time you’re cashed up and prices are optim it’s time to be aggressive companies need capital and you’re out there hunting and then there’s a time to harvest right where you have set your royalties in place prices have come up competition has arrived the quality of deals is getting worse and you want to sit back on your portfolio so where where are you guys at from very much in the rapid early I mean we’re not a newborn anymore we’re a teenager right but we’re very much our

bones are still growing and um we want to we want to just I want to see that portfolio grow with each year that goes by we’re at 24 we’re at 30 we’re at 35 yeah so look for us to reinvest any sort of cash flows that come in the door although we start at a good place we have 300 million in cash and liquid assets largely in physical uranium we have 2.8 million pounds of uranium that we shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that um we acquired at an average cost of I think under $60 a pound so it’s at a

good um a cost basis but that’s our war chest we’ll sell uranium to buy royalties or streams or establish royalties and streams so um yeah eventually though every good royalty company becomes a dividend you know producer or you know for its investors and I can’t wait you know for that day but it’s not today we really need to grow and be be bigger yeah okay you’re in hunting mode I love that 300 million in liquid assets to uh deploy when you see deals that you love is there an average deal size that you

could speak to or is it’s really interesting I mean we’ve done you know small deals um you know acquiring our our royalty on Salam Mona was was literally in the hundreds of thousand you know under a half a million dollars to acquire royalty on a mine that frankly hasn’t gotten the license to move forward and and produce um you know there’s some that are in the you know five million range but I think in terms of new project financings I think they fall really in that 20 to 50 million range and it may be um the financing

need might be bigger the total need may be bigger but it may be that’s what we’re comfortable doing and we’ve even been in discussions with some miners developers that might have a60 million dollar uh million uh development need uh but you know we we wouldn’t do that much in a royalty we would do a portion of it but we have other strategic partners that might come alongside of us and say hey if you guys who are uranium experts like that project enough to put your own 50 million into it we’ll put

another 50 million in in equity and and come with kind of a a combo deal or we’ll introduce you know different concepts we’ve also studied a lot of kind of structured Finance deals um and and trying to introduce maybe elements of convertible debentures into the royalty and streaming model so we’re we’re really trying to be creative and come up with new products that perhaps hav even been done before in in Precious or base metals can you speak to the human capital that’s assisting I mean I know you’ve been in the sector for like

3940 years and previously president of cico USA like you’ve been in it um I know you’re team you’ve got a handful of very strategic dealmakers which helps so anything you can share on that front yeah I mean we obviously have um you know as as our chairman Amir is obviously a great um you know entrepreneurial energy behind all of us but at the nuts and bolts level uh there’s a heavy element of of former cico Corporation people we’ve we’ve the University of cako has been very good to a lot of companies in our industry and

and uh former cico people are running all the all the companies in the uranium space around the world today we’re no exception where um on the technical side due diligence is probably one of the most important things we do is that through that due diligence we identify what are the right projects you know to to pursue and when we’re in that Pursuit what’s the right price to pay for royalty and stream and so guys like Darcy H corn who was over 20 years in camoo global exporation um is is is really a valuable um uh team

made of mine where he’ll scrub the drill programs we won’t just take for granted you know the resources that the management says go okay did you go through the right regimen in determining those resources are they really there then when it comes to like assessing well can this be mined uh efficiently and profitably I bring in James Hatley who um was mine engineer at cigar Lake MacArthur River with cico um he looks at the mine plan to say yeah that’s that’s doable that’s logical um maybe looks at

the time permitting and time permitting timelines which sometimes management can exaggerate how quickly a mine can be permitted and licensed and we’ll put a bit of reality overlay on that and say hey we love your mine but we think it’s going to take a few more years to permit license than you do but that’s valuable that’s stuff we bring um that someone who’s coming from another commodity you know wouldn’t have that kind of perspective and that might cause them to lose opportunities or it might cause

them to overpay for opportunities but due diligence and uh most important thing that we do and I have a good small team to help me with that you know yeah what’s compelling about it to me is we talked about the sort of global shift that’s creating demand whether you’re looking at new build outs in China and the United States whether you’re looking at the biggest companies in the world deploying Capital into nuclear generation for their own Enterprise um and you know you want to go further Upstream like how do you

supply the you know how do you supply the picks and the shovels to where they’re going to be needed um and then in a world of kind of crazy monetary policy how do you protect yourself against inflated input costs right and that’s sort of a case to be made I think right for URC is that’s the angle yeah well it’s I mean the mining industry is so famous for capex blowups you recent years um you know inflation has not been kind to you know a lot of deposits around the world um so yeah the royalty model is more applicable now than it

than it ever has been and um so yeah we just we’re very um we’re grateful that we did launch when we did you know it might have been early in the cycle but um we’ve also learned a lot we’ve learned a great deal more of sophistication in structured Finance in royalties and dreams um you know full disclosure than than maybe when we started out and and I think it really helps and you know I enjoy personally being able to come alongside my you know I know what it takes to build you know to acquire assets and build uranium mins as

being part of you know uranium energy Corp I know how hard that is but I love going to other miners developers I get what they’re facing and you know to come alongside and say hey I’ve got a solution for for part for all of your your development Finance needs um that’s really enjoyable and at the end of the day you know you you’re doing this to see more uranium being produced around the world and the world clearly needs more uranium it seems to yeah sure does and you’re right the capital blowouts or just the uh you know even in

the precious metal sector over the last four or five years we’ve seen a handful of almost great mining projects right that stumbled at the final yard line right and and and it can happen and what’s so important in this industry is optionality right like you know my my audience is all over the the Spectrum in terms of risk but even the expiration investors know like those single asset explorers those are the biggest gambles in the game and uh you know proceed with absolute caution you need optionality

because things can go wrong not just from a geological standpoint but yes from a capital standpoint and from a jurisdictional standpoint there’s all these variables and more right and you want to diversify that risk as much as possible yeah and that’s that’s an important part of the royalty model I mean let’s face it we’re going to have Assets in the portfolio that underperform our expectations that’s inevitable but we’re going to have some that outperform our expectations and again it comes back to that due

diligence if we’ve done the right things to pick the right companies to put into the portfolio will’ll have more winners than losers and uh and again it does spread the risk out of any single mind failure I’m excited about what you’re building Scott uh I really am and I also really appreciate just you know getting context and picking your brain on the sort of bigger picture nuclear landscape right now because I love and it’s factoring more and more into the geopolitical conversation in a big way

and I I don’t think we should sleep on that you know major Paradigm Shift the rise of the private energy Empires whatever you want to call it that’s also occurring and it’s really important news yeah listen um you know I’ve been a long time uranium bull that’s that’s clear but I don’t think in my 41 years I’ve seen this combination of geopolitics you know Green energy transition uh energy demand growth tech companies all all of this coming together and just then the nuts and bolts of supply and demand I

mean we still have a very significant deficit even if there wasn’t a Data Center built we still have a 50 million pound deficit to what the market needs uh annually currently so um you know the data center story is just literally cream on the top but it is a very real real force and I think um you’ll see more announcements of investments in nuclear and you know I I wouldn’t be surprised if they come Downstream into the fuel cycle as well yeah no doubt no doubt okay um since you use the word light speed three times in the first 10

minutes I want to have you back in a few months and get caught up again but in the meantime Scott enjoy Washington uh safe trip to South Africa Cape Town um and I look forward to catching up again a few months down the road excellent thanks Jay pleasure to be be with you and uh talk about some pretty exciting times in our industry yeah 100% all right