De-Dollarization to Speed Up (Uncut) 03-15-2025

De-Dollarization to Speed Up As U.S. Retreats from Old Alliances | Taylor Kenney of ITM Trading.

I think if you’re an ally of the United States right now, you might be kind of sitting there and taking a pause and thinking, huh, okay, so we have been supporting the United States and the dollars, the global reserve currency, because we haven’t had a choice, but maybe it kind of benefited us, right? Like you have big bad United States behind you backing you up. But if you can’t really count on that moving forward, if the United States is kind of retreating and pulling back, and we’re not going to be having military aid or defense aid, and you know, there’s things that just turn on its head overnight, I also think we’re going to see a more rapid move away from the U.S. dollar. Maneco64, home of Alternative Economics and Contrarian Views.

Today I have the pleasure of speaking with a new guest, Taylor Kenney from ITM Trading. Her show there is called Taylor Made Economics. And we met actually in an interview with Jesse Day a couple of weeks ago, and I thought it would be great to have you on, Taylor.

So welcome to the channel. Thank you so much, Mario. I’m very excited to be here.

Like I was saying, there’s a lot going on right now. So no shortage of things to talk about. Definitely not.

Every day, there’s something new and it’s difficult to keep track of. But I guess for what we do on YouTube, it’s good. I mean, we couldn’t ask for more.

And talking about what’s going on, one of the first questions I wanted to ask you is something that’s been talked about for a few years, and it’s the everything bubble. And they’ve been able to keep this everything bubble going on and on and on. But I saw recently that you think that everything bubble is in peril.

So could you tell me and the viewers why you think so? And yeah, what you see going forward in terms of this everything bubble? Yeah, absolutely. Well, like you said, they have been able to keep it going on and on and on, right? But that’s part of the problem, is that the solution becomes the problem. So you have to pump it, pump it, pump it, pump it to keep it going.

And the more you add the solution, of course, the worse the problem gets. I feel like when we look at these everything bubbles, of course, they’re built on speculation, easy monetary policies, credit. And I think what we’re seeing is we’re seeing this speculation.

Finally, a lot of people are realizing, oh, these valuations are obviously not built on anything solid and tangible, while we’re also seeing the beginning of the end of this kind of easy credit that has been building it up. And I think what ultimately happens is, of course, you have all this collateral that allows more borrowing. And once it kind of pops, and I like to say this too, pops, because it’s not always like a slow unwinding, right? A lot of times these bubbles burst and they burst violently.

And it’s both the borrower and the lender who’s left at the end of the day with the collateral, where the value just disappears, because it wasn’t built on anything real and tangible. And I think we’re honestly seeing that right now kind of playing out in live time. And what indicators are telling you that in terms of the markets, let’s say the bond market, stock market, and even gold? I think recently you spoke about what gold is telling us.

So is that part of this picture? Absolutely. And I think like, I mean, gold tells us a lot, right? And I know you talk about this all the time too, but what are we seeing with gold? We’re seeing gold continue to remain strong. We’re seeing it go up.

And there’s a reason why, right? Safe money, smart money, everyone knows that ultimately what you have over here is just speculation and air. And then what you have over here is real, sound money. And ultimately, if you have people and those in power, those in charge, those who know what’s coming, central banks and large institutions, and you have everyone running over to safe money, there’s a reason why.

It’s because they’re preparing for something big. In my opinion, yes, that something big is what we’re seeing across all these different classes where the valuations are, it’s just smoke and mirrors. And people are realizing that, and time is running out, is how I view it.

Yes. And this interview is being conducted like on the 12th of March. And we’ve seen this week, and to some extent last week, the stock market come off quite a bit.

And gold and silver hold on quite well. And that’s like triggered some moves in charts like, let’s say, gold versus S&P and the Dow Gold Ratio. So yeah, I think it’s pointing more than ever to some kind of unwind of this everything bubble.

The other thing I’ve noticed, Taylor, is that someone posted on X yesterday that the S&P has been down about 7%. And since then, the 10-year yield hasn’t really gone down. It stayed around 4.3. And there’s a lot of people who think that the Trump administration is trying to bring down the stock market so that financing costs go down.

But it doesn’t seem to be happening. And we’ve also seen recently this spat between representative, I don’t know if you’ve heard of this, Thomas Massey and President Trump, because he voted no for this continuing resolution to keep the government open. So maybe you could touch upon what’s going on in the States in terms of the fiscal situation.

And what you think President Trump is really trying to do, it seems to be all over the place. It’s disruptive. And it’s actually, I don’t know, it might just work, but it’s going to take a lot longer than just overnight.

Yeah, I saw a good quote on X yesterday that said he’s trying to thread the needle, so hopefully he’s good at sewing, which made me laugh because I think what we’re seeing, right, I mean, President Trump has come out and said that he’s not afraid of disruption. Now, what that disruption means, again, there’s a lot of speculation, but essentially short-term pain for long-term gain is kind of what he’s after. As far as potentially having the stock market go down so that he can refinance debt, I think that’s like the most obvious answer.

We also know that Trump is in favor of a weaker dollar, right? That’s something that he has not been shy talking about. So here in the United States, it seems like everyone is very hyper focused on tariffs, specifically what’s going to happen with tariffs as it pertains to businesses and tax and inflation. But I also think there’s this much bigger picture that a lot of people aren’t talking about, which is the geopolitical implications, right? I think if you’re an ally of the United States right now, you might be kind of sitting there and taking a pause and thinking, huh, okay, so we have been supporting the United States and the dollar as the global reserve currency because we haven’t had a choice, but maybe it kind of benefited us, right? Like you have big bad United States behind you backing you up.

But if you can’t really count on that moving forward, if the United States is kind of retreating and pulling back and we’re not going to be having military aid or defense aid, and there’s things that could just turn on its head overnight, I also think we’re going to see a more rapid move away from the U.S. dollar. It’s something, of course, that’s already been happening with BRICS and other countries who, of course, are not in support of dollar dominance for good reason, but we might even see that now start to happen with more countries, too. So there’s a lot at play here, and I don’t even know if I answered your question because there’s so much to unpack.

I don’t know exactly what the long-term plan is, but I think it is clear that he’s not afraid of taking risks and, again, potentially upending a lot right now with whatever the big picture is for that kind of like phase two of where we’re going. Yeah, and I don’t know if you listened to an interview that Scott Besant, the Secretary of the Treasury, did before even the elections, before he was nominated, and he said in this interview that gold was his biggest holding for his hedge fund, and he also thought that we’re fast approaching a Bretton Woods-like realignment, and that’s the only thing I can think of that Trump is doing. He’s got the board, the game board on the table, and he’s just trying anything he can, trying to get the upper hand for the U.S. and eventually sit down at a conference.

Some people think it’s going to be at Mar-a-Lago instead of Bretton Woods, right? Do you think all these tariffs and this tit-for-tat is to do with that, just to get everyone eventually to say, look, we have to do something, let’s sit down and talk? I do. I think that there’s this shaking of the tree to see what falls, and I think that that’s exactly what’s going on right now. I think that, of course, that means that we’re going to have more volatility, even more than we would have had, but again, I don’t think he’s afraid of that.

I think that we’re looking at the big picture now and trying to see, okay, in the past historically we’ve stuck our head in the sand and said, no, no, no, we’re just going to plow forward, we’re going to do what we’ve always done and just kind of be a bully and make it work, and I think now he’s saying, no, no, no, no, enough is enough, and I think a lot of what he actually says isn’t what he means. I think he just says it to keep things moving and going, but I think there’s a lot more behind the scenes, and I think it’s exactly right. I think that he understands that eventually it would probably be better to lead the charge versus have the charge come to you and you have to play the defense, right? I think he’s trying to play offense here with what’s going to happen with, yeah, I don’t know, I know some people are calling it Bretton Woods III, we’re kind of in a pseudo two right now, yeah.

Okay, what about, there’s been, well, for the last six weeks, almost two months now, a lot of talk about all the gold, physical gold that’s flowing to the U.S., so the first question is, what do you think that is? And then afterwards, if you could cover the question of an audit of Fort Knox, whether that’s, the gold is really there, or if it is there, whether it’s encumbered? Yeah, I think, again, we’re hearing a lot in legacy media about the reasons why this is happening. I don’t think they’re the real reasons why, I don’t think, again, everyone’s pointing back to tariffs as their answer for everything, it’s just not that simple, right? I think there’s a lot more that meets the eye, and I think that ultimately, there’s been a paper scheme that’s been going on, we all know that, you know that, I know that, for a long time, and I kind of think, finally, it’s being exposed. And the question is, yeah, where is all the gold? Do we really have gold at Fort Knox? I think you and I joked about this before, where I said, unless I was there myself, I probably wouldn’t believe an audit, maybe, maybe if there is, you know, a third party that could be trusted, and or the live stream, or whatever they want to say, but ultimately, I have my concerns.

Of course, that’s just speculation, I can’t say with certainty, but it does seem odd. I mean, at the very least, and I think if you don’t sit here and question things at this point, you haven’t been paying attention to what’s been going on. And I would, I would actually love to hear your opinion, because you’re in London.

So I’m sure you’re been following it closely. Yeah, I mean, I saw this story that came out in the end of January, in the FT, and I was really surprised when they said that gold for spot delivery had moved to like four to eight weeks for delivery. And I said, there’s a problem here, because there’s plenty of gold in Bank of England vaults and LBMA related bank vaults, like 8000 tons or so, which is similar to what the US supposedly has.

So I was really shocked. And I thought, shocked, but not surprised, because they’ve been using the gold in London, and to some extent, in the US and New York, to hypothecate that gold, to lease it out so that bullying banks can sell it many times over. Here in London, there’s no limit to the rehypothecation.

And I think that’s what’s happened. Something triggered, someone or some institution wanted the physical, and it spoiled this whole LBMA COMEX arbitrage that’s done through this exchange for physical. And then that name is really misleading, Taylor, because exchange for physical is really just another paper instrument.

It’s just people speculating, arbing LBMA and COMEX, and then delivering EFP, but it’s only done on paper. But I think what’s happened now is some people really want the physical for EFP. So the LBMA and the COMEX, they’ve been caught kind of short.

And that’s why I think when I saw that story, 29th of January, gold was at 2760. And I just want to see where we are here as we speak on Wednesday. Well, it’s at 2940 almost, almost at an all-time high.

So I think that’s what’s happened. Who’s taking that gold over to the US? It’s difficult to say, but there’s a lot of supposedly credible sources like BullionVault, who are an LBMA member, and also StoneX, they’re LBMA as well. They’re saying it’s about 2000 tons in the first, let’s say, December and the first month or so of this year.

And to me, it seems that it could be the Treasury bringing it back through the Fed, because maybe they will need to revalue the gold. But to do that, they need an audit. And if the gold isn’t there, or if it’s encumbered, they need to close out these short positions or these leases.

That’s how I see it. Is that how you see it? That’s my thought as well, because it’s funny, right? If we talk about delivery, the last time we saw anything close to this was 2020. And at that time, if you have all these institutions and entities who are demanding delivery of gold, it makes sense.

There was so much unknown. There was all this chaos. People don’t know what’s going to happen.

And you have all these transportation issues. OK, suddenly delivery is looking scary. Makes sense.

But all of a sudden, when this kind of broke out, because I know exactly what article you’re talking about from the FT, when that came out, it was like, why now? What is prompting it? And then to have all of this chit-chat around gold revaluation at a time when obviously things are being shaken up and this reset is becoming not just kind of like a term that we’re talking about, but again, going mainstream, it just seems like too much of a coincidence, right? For me, at least. And that’s why I kind of think the same thing, that obviously there’s something bigger happening. I think if you don’t think that, again, you’re not paying close enough attention, because this doesn’t just happen out of nowhere, is my take on it.

Yeah, and we are not in a crisis like we were back in 2020. One thing that circling back to your everything bubble unwinding, and I think this everything bubble has been like a financialization bubble, a credit bubble since 1981 to like 2020, 2021. And I’m not saying this is going to happen overnight, but we’re going to slowly move into a world that’s a bit more sober, where credit isn’t as abundant as it is, and gold, silver and hard assets, tangible things become more valuable.

And I heard President Trump, just a clip, he did an interview, I think, on Sunday with Maria Bartiromo of Fox Business or Fox News. And he said, well, the Chinese, they think in 100 year like terms, we think America, Americans think in quarters. And he said, I think that’s too short, he said, and we have to build a solid foundation.

So I think that’s a big hint. I think he wants to do something more long term, and he doesn’t care about the disruption that it causes. And to me, if you’re going to move from a heavily financialized world where Wall Street, and let’s say, the big corporations are the only ones who really truly benefit, you need to go more to a real world with a semblance of sound money.

Is that the way you’re seeing things too? Definitely, absolutely. I think that I talk about trust a lot, trust in the system being broken, and not just from my own individual perspective, or, you know, or global perspective, or other countries perspective, every single thing that we have built, again, is built, like you said, on this financialization on credit, it’s not sustainable. And I sometimes hate to use that because unsustainable is used so much that it’s lost its meaning.

I think a long time ago, we could say, oh, we’re on an unsustainable trajectory, because it was the truth then. But now we’re really seeing that finally come to fruition, where it’s like, you hit the end of the road, right? And eventually, you have to rebuild, reset with something that you can trust with something real and tangible. And I know you talk a lot about commodities, as well as kind of our new, again, future.

And I absolutely agree that it has to be something real and tangible. And I believe that we’re going to go back to sound money. Because ultimately, how can you reset the game in a way that makes sense that people will trust or that will make any sense at all? If it’s, again, just more financialization, at a certain point, you kind of have to blow it up and start over.

That’s how I view it. Yeah, and you said, start over. And President Trump said that he CBDCs, he doesn’t, he’s not for CBDCs.

But we’ve seen recently that Christine Lagarde, the president of the ECB said that they’re launching one in October. How do you see that? I see it as a threat to Europeans, really. Yeah.

And I think they’re going to phase it in, of course, is going to run parallel to having cash and stuff. But yeah, how do you see it? And do you think President Trump is for real, and he’s going to put like a barrier to that? Yeah, I mean, there already have been some legal maneuvers. And he’s only been in office now, what, about two months, you know, prohibiting moving forward with the CBDC here in the United States.

That being said, it’s not to say that there aren’t maybe Trojan horses that could be used, right? I think it’s wildly unpopular here. So it makes sense to say we’re not going to be moving forward with that. I again, don’t think that doesn’t mean that on a state level, they couldn’t move forward in some way.

It wouldn’t maybe be again, a central bank digital currency. Maybe there’s some other kind of spin on it. I think to think that we’re in a safeguard here against it.

Again, for me, I don’t believe that. I think that there’s always possibilities and by different names, ways that things could move forward in Europe. Absolutely.

They’ve been pursuing it hard for a while, you know, and I think that it’s only a matter of time. I would absolutely be concerned, because I don’t think that the future is bright with central bank digital currencies. And that’s, of course, why I also am a big believer in sound money and physical gold and silver, because I think as we continue to phase out cash, and we move towards a CBDC future, any semblance of privacy or control that you have is going to just continue to be stripped away from you at a more accelerated rate.

Yeah, talking about sound money, gold and silver, could you tell the viewers your strategy for, let’s say, someone who’s never bought gold, someone who’s got gold? Do you like dollar cost averaging? And yeah, what kind of proportion do you think people should have of gold and silver? I know it’s like, everyone’s different, but broadly speaking. No, definitely. Well, I mean, I had the benefit and blessing, I guess you could say, of being raised with sound money advocacy.

So my grandpa was a big, big believer in gold. I actually like to tell the story that my first truck I actually bought with a gold coin that I had gotten from my grandpa. And it’s funny, right? At the time, it was worth significantly less than it would be today, right? So the person I bought that truck from made out, whereas if they, you know, had in US dollars, it would be worth significantly less.

And it’s like, that’s a great first lesson to learn, right? And moving on from there, my view is, I just continue to stack, right? And I see this all the time to comments on my channel, they’ll say, okay, so gold, you know, it’s almost at these all time highs, or it’s pushing 3000. I wish I had bought back in 2020. Or I wish I had bought that.

And or is it too high now? And for me, I just don’t view it that way. Because for me, it all goes back to the why? Why are you buying it? Right? I believe that the dollar will always be worth less. And I believe that gold will always be worth more.

For me, as far as how much, again, I’m not trying to cop out here. But I do think it depends on each individual person, what you’re preparing for, what you’re planning for what your own personal situation is. Financially, everyone is different.

But the bottom line for me is that I just continue to stack both because I think that ultimately, the way I view it is silver is going to be more my daily driver, gold will be more my wealth protection. And that’s kind of the basics for me is just continue whenever I get the chance. I never have regretted it.

Right. And I don’t believe that I will in the future. So you did you learn a lot from your granddad? Yes, yes.

That’s good. What was the was it was the stacking like in the 70s and 80s? Or? Yeah, yeah, he grew up with he grew up with the belief and he’s been you know, he was stuck in his whole life. And it was something he taught me very early on.

He was always a bit of a skeptic, but he would say everything with like that twinkle in his eye, right, all knowing and I think when I was younger, not all of it kind of landed didn’t quite make sense. And as I’ve gotten older, unfortunately, he’s no longer with us. But there’s, you know, today, I wish I could have those conversations with him, because I know he’d be looking around right now and going, see, you know, that’s what I was talking about.

That’s what I told you. And I guess being exposed to gold and sound money. Is that is that like had an influence on what kind of economics you follow? I guess you’re not a Keynesian.

Yeah, it’s no, it’s funny, because I think everything comes full circle. So kind of the same way I say a lot of those teachings maybe didn’t land when I was younger. I also grew up in a very rural area in southern Oregon.

And my backgrounds kind of how I got into this was emergency preparedness. The two are somewhat like I say, like a Venn diagram, right? If you’re into one, you might be into the other. And as I got older, I moved to a city and I realized, oh, this was kind of a part of my life that maybe I had strayed away from or not thought of, because it wasn’t as prevalent or relevant at the time, when I realized, oh, this is something everyone should be more prepared.

I started to kind of revisit some of those values that I was raised with. And as I started getting into sound money, again, I started looking at what’s going on and realizing, hey, none of this is making sense when I’m being told is not making sense. As I started to question, I went deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole.

And, you know, not to go on too much of a tangent, but that’s why I do what I do, too, is a lot of friends that I have a lot of my peers are completely unaware. And I think it’s just something that’s not taught or talked about as much as it should be. I think we’re not really taught to question.

And I think that there were a lot of principles that maybe are considered old fashioned. And I always say, great, call me old fashioned. I’ll take it as a compliment.

Because, you know, the system we have today, the new the new fashion is clearly not working for the majority. Well, that was a great Taylor. Really great to speak to you.

And yeah, hopefully we’ll do this again in the future. And I’m also free to come to your channel if you’d like. Incredible, incredible.

Well, I so appreciate it. I’ve been a fan of yours for a long time. So really enjoy all of your content and chatting with you today.

Thank you. And yeah, have a great rest of the week. Thank you so much.

You too.