Bloodbath In Global Markets Today (Uncut) 04-07-2025

Black Monday 2.0: Bloodbath In Global Markets Today | Michael Gayed

We’re speaking today on Sunday, April 6th, and Dow futures are down nearly 1,000 points ahead of Monday’s open. People are talking about whether or not Monday will be worse or a repeat of Black Monday 87. Will it be worse? Will it be a repeat? Let’s find out with Michael Gaillard, publisher of the Leadleg Report.

Michael, welcome back. Good to see you. Let’s start with one of your colorful tweets, as usual.

They crash stocks to save bonds. I was right. I was effing right.

All right, let’s start with that. Who’s they? What do you mean by crash? Who’s they? I love that. I always see those comments.

Who’s the they? They is just the market. It’s not like some nefarious group of people. I just think it’s funny that people always come back and say, who’s the they? It’s the market forces.

Now, listen, I mean, you and I have been talking about this for a while, this thesis I’ve had for now. To save bonds. Yeah.

To save bonds. Well, bonds just went up. They have.

Yeah, we should talk about that. Just very kind of short term. Yields totally roundtripped even from the futures side pre here on Sunday night.

No, no. This has been a thesis I’ve had for some time. Last year and a half, two years.

This argument that in order to get yields lower, you have to force a flight to safety. Flight to safety, which is the whole analogy of the Phoenix rising, only happens with stocks crashing. All right.

And that’s not me saying that. That’s history saying that typically when you look at major declines in equities, long duration treasury yields drop because there’s this moment of panic among investors. They start to position defensively.

Defensive positioning means going risk off. Going risk off means going into things that do not have default risk like the U.S. government because the U.S. government’s got a printer. The risk that’s off in the term risk off is default risk.

So if you want to get yields lower to refinance these trillions of dollars of U.S. government debt, one way to do it is to make the S&P suddenly look like it’s crashing, which is seemingly the case now. Yeah. So Dow futures down 1000 points.

So we’re set to open the markets tomorrow morning in bear market territory. That’s what’s happening right now. And the S&P futures are down about 3.9 percent.

NASDAQ 100 futures down 3.8 percent, 4.8 percent rather. This is a Sunday night. All right, Michael, why is this happening? I mean, just summarize for us what is going on in the world right now.

Reciprocal tariffs have been announced a couple of days ago. Why are things still selling off? Isn’t it funny? Right. Markets are efficient.

Everyone knew that he was going to be putting tariffs on and everyone’s surprised he’s putting tariffs on. Yeah. Like tell me how that makes sense.

No, no. I was reading that people did not know people. He was saying it every single day on the campaign trail and no one believed him.

And then people he was actually doing what he said he was going to do. Donald Trump. We’re talking about Trump.

And now everyone’s by everyone. I mean, the market’s taken back. Yeah.

The whole thing is it’s an absurd concept to think that nobody saw it coming. Of course, people saw it coming. Now, maybe not the magnitude and the way it’s being done, especially given how much leverage there is in the system.

I mean, if you’re going to fault Trump for anything, it’s that he’s doing this when the starting point was, you know, a manic environment where everyone got all into equities and played with levered funds and are still playing with those levered products on the long side. The why it’s happening, you know, I see all these charts showing, you know, how stock markets behave with a new president and with Trump, it’s like straight down. And it’s like it’s so disingenuous because what’s the valuation of the U.S. stock market? Like everyone’s blaming Trump, but should we be blaming the fact that it became stupidly overvalued to begin with and this was just a trigger? I will say that I’ve been on this thesis around the credit event for the better part of two years.

I’ve been early, wrong. You want to blame me for that? Well, I got very bullish on gold October 2023. Go right ahead.

But the fact that the yen was rallying in advance of this, consistent with the reverse carry trade thesis, the fact that utilities were outperforming equity starting late January, consistent with the risk off sentiments, consistent with what you see prior to tail events. The fact that two and a half weeks ago, lumber to gold started really weakening after unfortunately short term risk on false signal with tariff pricing causing lumber to go up. The fact that all these things were rewarding really had nothing to do with Trump.

It’s just we were due for a tail event. I’ve said that many times before. I thought that was ever bearish on stocks is that it was bullish on a tail event.

And it’s very clear we’re in a tail event. Now, the problem here is the path. OK, I put out this post just before we’re talking here saying that the risk is not a crash in stocks.

Now, the risk is a whipsaw, because I will tell you, after having done all of these polls, which yes, it’s true, they are sentiment driven, not positioning driven, as a friend of mine who’s listening noted to me earlier, it seems like everyone’s suddenly bearish and thinking that this is not over. It probably is not over, but doesn’t mean it has to be not over tomorrow. I mean, it can cause a whipsaw, a rally back, suck retail back in and then still ultimately go lower because no matter what, the reality is valuations are still very expensive.

The reality is credit spreads are still too tight. And the reality is small caps, which continue to hold the key, have been screaming that something’s wrong. There were five years into a lost decade for the vast majority of the goddamn stock market to say that the bears have been wrong when the vast majority of stocks, which are small cap, are back at twenty twenty one levels is silly.

OK, so, Michael, you tweeted this is worse than covid. What is this? The tailed event? What are we referring to? Why is it worse than covid? Yeah, well, I saw some status like this is if the futures if the market were to close where the futures were at their worst and the Dow was down like fifteen hundred points earlier in the night, that it would be the worst three day stretch since 1987, even worse than covid. So, yeah, I mean, this is OK, we’re going to crash.

It’s very clear. You know, and I started noting this maybe six, seven weeks ago that the behavior of long duration treasuries was clearly acting more like how it typically does in risk off periods, meaning as stock volatility was rising, you could see yields are starting to drop on the long duration side. Now, that is very key to me as a portfolio manager for my funds, Jojo, which has really done extremely well as a bond ETF being risk off junk off prior to this.

And now I’m starting to get flows on this. Treasuries are acting like the flight to safety trade again. So I think we’re way past now this cycle where stocks drop and yields rise.

I think that is going to change, especially if I’m right, that spreads are still very early in their widening and that there’s still more pain to come. But the pain is going to come both ways. I keep making this point.

Bear markets make fools of bulls and bears. I say that purposely because it is a very well-known fact. Volatility clustering suggests that when you have big declines in markets, you tend to have big advances.

All these studies that show this is what happens to stocks when you miss the 10 best days. The 10 best days tend to happen around the 10 worst days. They cluster.

This is why everyone gets whipsawed and everyone gets screwed in bear markets. Before we continue with the video, let me tell you about a very important matter. Consider your email, something all of us use all the time.

Now your email is more than just a way for you to communicate. It’s a way for you to build trust. Whether you’re an entrepreneur, freelancer or developer, having a professional email that ensures privacy is essential.

That’s why today’s sponsor ProtonMail and Porkbun have partnered to offer you a secure, reliable email with your custom domain. ProtonMail provides end-to-end encryption, ensuring that your email subject lines and attachments remain private, shielded from prying eyes and data mining. This means that even ProtonMail’s servers cannot decrypt your messages, offering you true privacy.

Setting up your ProtonMail with a Porkbun domain is relatively straightforward, allowing you to establish a professional email address that reflects your brand in just a few clicks. With ProtonMail, you can access your inbox seamlessly across Windows, macOS, Android and iOS. Currently, Porkbun customers can access special pricing on ProtonMail Essentials or Professional Plans with plans starting about $599 per month for the first year.

Protect your communications and enhance your credibility today with secure email solutions. Learn more and get started at porkbun.com slash DavidLin25. Link down below or scan the QR code here.

What do we do? Can you tell them fired up? Can you tell them fired up? Can you tell them? You’re the one. Look, I’ll let you do all the firing up. I’m just responding.

I think you’re fired up enough for both of us. So you’ve been right on the bonds trade. Congratulations.

Let’s just get to some questions that people have been asking me privately, which are fair questions for any investor. When’s the bottom? I told them nobody knows the bottom, but how do we know when the bottom is approaching? So I teased it a little bit earlier on other posts. So in October of 2022, it’s funny how people forget this, but it’s fact, about two weeks before the low, I put a post out saying on X, the end of the world is at hand and that’s why stocks are about to have a melt up.

And that was two weeks before the low because the sentiment was so incredibly dark and there was, I think, a capitulation moment in bonds and treasuries at the time, which suggested that stocks would probably start to rally. And that was around the time of the low. The way you identify lows is when there’s capitulation and everyone is convinced the lows are not in.

So I don’t know exactly when that’s going to happen. And I think typically you can identify when you’re close to it, when credit spreads are going through a multi-standard deviation spread widening type of scenario, which then forces the Fed to act, step in and liquefy. You’re not there yet.

Credit spreads are still very much disconnected from the magnitude of the S&P 500’s decline. And remember, my entire thesis, which is not me just saying things out of nowhere, my entire thesis has been very simple the last year and a half, two years. Small caps are screaming default risk.

Credit spreads have been screaming no default risk. One of those asset classes must be wrong. How do you prove that credit spreads are wrong? By having a trigger.

Now, I had this whole argument that the trigger is Japan with the reverse carry trade. All of these Trump tariff dynamics simply accelerate the reverse carry trade because every crash is inherently a deleveraging event, which is what the reverse carry trade is, which is why you’re seeing all this leverage now suddenly getting margin cold, and which is why this week is going to be a really wild one. So everything is connected with this.

All I know for sure is that everyone’s going to have a hard time, bulls and bears. I mean, it’s just not going to be that easy for anyone to hear. This is a Trump statement on Sunday.

President Trump said on Sunday evening that he is not intentionally engineering this ongoing sell off, but sometimes you have to take medicine to fix something. The trade deficit with China is this something, among other things. I don’t want anything to go down, but sometimes you have to take medicine to fix something.

The comments come as US stock futures drops on Sunday evening. Well, okay. So Michael, do you think- Hold on.

Hold on. Yeah. Yeah.

Hold on. He doesn’t want anything to go down. I’m pretty sure that, you know how you get rich? You buy things when they’re down.

I’m pretty sure he wants things down. I’m pretty sure if anybody’s logical, you should all want things to crash because that’s when real wealth is made. You don’t make real wealth at the heist.

Well, unless you, you know, your net worth is based on truth social, which I’m guessing is also down today. I don’t know. I haven’t checked it.

But look, Michael, do you think this whole thing is just blown out of proportion and this is just going to be the best buying opportunity of our lifetime? No, not yet. I think so. Part of this thesis.

Okay. So I keep saying they’ll crash stocks to save bonds. I think that’s clearly underway.

The next phase of that is you save bonds, you save small caps. And that’s where the generational buying opportunity will be because I think small caps coming out of this will be saved because small caps have been held back by higher rates. So you need to get rates down quite a bit for small caps to ultimately survive, for some of these zombie companies to refinance into lower rates to have a chance of survival.

And, you know, it’s no different than when you have these distressed properties or distressed assets when suddenly there’s a realization that they are not distressed because something changed, that these companies continue to be ongoing concerns. Those assets rip, right now. I don’t think you’re there yet because obviously yields have not dropped significantly enough.

The Fed’s not going to intervene until credit spreads widen substantially. I still think that’s coming. That is the credit event.

Okay. But I think coming out of this, yes, small caps should really be the big winner. But again, keep in mind the following.

It’s been a very nasty and sharp decline. Again, thankfully, my indicators, which have been proven to get ahead of this stuff, got it right. And my funds positioning proves that also in real time.

But the stock market is still stupidly overvalued. Like, you can blame Trump all you want, okay? And you can look at the equities and say, oh, now’s the time to buy. It’s down, you know, 15, 20 percent, whatever the number is.

Evaluations are still stupidly high. Like, it’s going to take some time for this to play out. And I don’t believe that this ends until retail stops buying levered long only products on every dip.

Look, the Nasdaq, here’s a Nasdaq chart. The Nasdaq has pretty much already wiped out gains going back to the beginning of 2024. Wow.

I didn’t even, I didn’t even, I didn’t even notice that. I mean, a couple of days- But hey, David, but hey, David, listen, man, a broken clock is right twice a day, right? I mean, hey, I mean, who cares that it doesn’t matter that every minute has a different importance during the day? I always hate that response by people. Oh, you’ve been bearish about things.

Who cares if you’re bearish for two years and wrong if you then give back five years’ worth of gains? Like, look at this chart that you’re showing me here. Two, three days gave back a year’s worth of performance? Look, I, look, I’m not, I would get into the market right now. That’s what I would do.

But I, I’m not a professional investor. You’re saying it’s not yet there. That’s not the time yet.

I’m looking at this chart- I think you’re right. This doesn’t make any sense. I, I think, I think you were right if you have a long enough timeframe.

That’s why dollar cost averaging makes sense for a lot of people, those that are trying to time it outside of people like me who are running funds that are designed to be tactical exactly for purposes of an environment like this. Again, Joe being the winner in this. I want to go back to what you said earlier.

Default risks are rising. Okay. You’ve been, okay.

Default risks have been rising for quite some time, if I’m not correct. If I’m not mistaken, what is triggering this rise in default risks? Is it getting to a point where investors need to be worried? I mean, is it because tariffs are going to cause companies to go belly up? Well, okay. It’s interesting because tariffs you would think would hurt large caps far more than small caps.

Well, small businesses get hurt a lot. But, but, but I think it’s been, but it’s been a disproportionate decline in small caps relative to large caps. And I think a large part of that is because, well, if tariffs do take place and it hits the consumer side, obviously, as a tax on consumers, because prices are higher, well, I go back to my point about what’s your starting point with what you’re doing all this.

The consumer is already stretched with credit card debt, with wages not keeping up. And it’s funny, right? Like, Ross 2000, NASDAQ, S&P 500, everyone feels like they’ve made more money than inflation. Have you really? After inflation, yeah.

Okay. The S&P probably has a positive return. Small caps, no.

The vast majority of assets are still below their 2021 inflation, it’s just the highest. So you’re going to try and put tariffs and hurt consumers more? Yeah. Then small caps, domestic companies will go belly up.

All right. What’s the play right now? Investment implications for all this. Pray is the play.

Find religion. No, look, I don’t think it’s gold. And I’m saying this as a guy that was screaming bullish on gold going back to October 2023, when I myself was peak bearish and wrong at the time on equities, saying repeatedly, gold is sending a warning.

I think it was very clear now with hindsight that gold’s warning was valid. I don’t think gold is the way to play this because now I think there’s manic optimism on gold. And typically in margin calls, the first thing that investors do is sell their winners as a source of liquidity.

Gold happens to be one of the few winners left in this. So I think it’s going to be a place for selling pressure. I think the only area to really be in, you know, likely is the area which everybody hates, which, again, is treasuries and probably more on the long duration side.

Everyone suddenly forgot that the pristine asset long duration treasuries tends to act like the best place to be when everything falls apart. And by the way, it has been. Now, yields haven’t dropped precipitously yet.

But if spreads blow out, I think they will. And if they will, there’s going to be a trade there. I’ve never once advocated for buying hold on treasuries.

I’ve simply been an advocate for the flight to safety trade into treasuries. And I think that’s back. Yeah.

It’s not just U.S. stocks. By the way, Chinese stocks and the K is down. Everything is down.

Global stocks, everything is down. So it’s not like emerging markets are a safe play right now, at least. It’s just everything is down.

The GDP now tracker from the Atlanta Fed, take a look at this, has not regained its positive territory. In fact, it’s still negative. It’s just, OK, are we in a recession right now? You think? Is that what market’s pricing right now? Essentially, I would argue that, again, I’ll go back to small caps hold the key.

I would argue that small caps have been acting like we’ve been in a recession for some time. Because, again, it’s like small caps are your real tell on the domestic economy versus multinational large caps, which are driven by passive flows from 401ks that are automatic. The S&P 500 is not a leading indicator of anything at this point.

Small caps are because they don’t have that auto bid on the passive side. So if you look at it from that perspective, I would argue, yeah, sure, small caps are telling you it’s either discounting a recession or we’ve been in a recession and it’s just been hidden by all the government job spending, which is very plausible. But the question of whether it’s a recession or not, I would argue, has nothing to do with equities.

I mean, everyone tends to seem to think that bear markets have to happen with a recession in line with it. It’s like, that’s not true at all. There are plenty of tail events, plenty of extreme declines, plenty of bear markets.

They have nothing to do with a contracting economy. Anything on the digital assets front, Bitcoin or anything else? So, you know, I love talking about Bitcoin as a store of value. I joke about that quite a bit on X and I’m not anti-Bitcoin at all.

I just I’m very anti-stupid narratives. And I think there’s a lot of stupid narratives out there that just doesn’t just relate to Bitcoin. I think it relates to a lot of things where people just come up with a story to justify price when maybe it’s just randomness.

OK, never mind that. Bitcoin, a lot of people may know that Bitcoin actually has performed pretty well since Liberation Day. Right.

Since all this tariff stuff started. Yeah. And I think it makes some sense from the perspective that if all this ultimately is what causes credit to break, causes credit spreads to widen, well, then actually, I would argue Bitcoin can be a bit of a hedge.

Why am I saying that? Not because it’s a store of value. I’m saying that because credit risk rising means counterparty risk is rising. Counterparty risk rising means you probably want something that’s decentralized, which is what Bitcoin is.

And that’s the whole reason Bitcoin was created following 08. It was the counterparty risk from the banks. So it wouldn’t I actually think it’s it seems plausible to me that Bitcoin may suddenly for a moment in time acts more risk offish.

Right. I don’t think it’s going to be fully as risk offish like treasuries, but I think it can actually be an interesting diversifier if I’m right that ultimately this does pan out into a bigger credit risk dynamic than what we’ve seen so far. What is the worst case scenario? This credit risk Godzilla moment.

How much worse can it get? I mean, the real how much worse can it get is, which I just kind of alluded to on X also, because if you notice, every time it looks like there’s some news story about Vietnam or Japan thinking about negotiating or India, you know, there’s there’s some optimism and a rally in futures. I think that will continue until the market realizes China’s probably not going to play that game and negotiate. And the real if you really want me to put the doomsday hat on so that everyone then says I’m really a perma bear.

The real worst case scenario is China says, you know what, we’re not going to play this tariff game. And yeah, we’re going to go for Taiwan. OK.

How does that. I’m sorry. What’s the relationship between tariffs and Taiwan? What is that? Are you are you are you assuming that the economy is decoupled? They don’t care anymore.

Yeah. Yeah. Essentially, it’s like if Trump’s going to play this game with us, then we’re not going to care what then try and come after us if we’re going to go after Taiwan.

I’m just saying you don’t know. Like these things can can get out of control very quickly, especially when you’ve got big egos at play. Now, I don’t think it’s likely, but it’s a non-zero probability, right? The more likely scenario is you’re going to have further stress.

You’re going to have everybody getting whipsawed. Everyone’s talking about Black Monday, which means it’s probably not going to be Black Monday. I know we’re recording this Sunday night, so I may eat those words if that’s the case.

But I think the odds do not favor that to happen. I think retail is going to get sucked in. A lot of people are going to get thrown off at whatever comes next.

And credit spreads will keep on rising. Treasuries will keep acting risk off. And then at some point, the cycle repeats and the Fed comes in and liquefies.

You think the breakers will get halted tomorrow? I mean, it looks like it happened with Japan, right? That happened last summer, by the way. Remember that? Yeah. When the… I had you back on the show, I think it was early August, when the reverse carry trade happened and the circuit breakers in Japan were triggered.

Yeah, yeah. That was a… You know, I had 14 million impressions organically on X on August 5th, because everyone’s like, oh, the guy who called it. And then I turned very bullish on the reverse carry trade.

Same thing, like just the last several days, I see my X accounts like blowing up on impressions because people have this impression that I’m a perma-breaker and I’m not, right? It’s just, I have a thesis that I’ve been very consistent on. But who knows? I… Look, if you really want to have a real tell, okay, this is something I think is a good takeaway. May 6th, 2010, the flash crash, okay? When the Dow was down 1000 points, May 6th, 2010.

Everyone at that point focused on the Dow being down 1000 points, it was like an hour before the close is when it started. But two hours or three hours before that, junk debt was down like 5%, 6%. So you had basically an 87 style crash in credits prior to the Dow itself having its own flash crash.

You really want circuit breakers to get hit on US equities? It’s very simple. Hit HYG or JNK or any of the junk debt ETFs in the 3%, 4%, 5% range while long duration treasury prices are up. That’s a spread blowout.

That’s a multi-sigma event. That is what causes equities to, with a delay, break down hard and maybe cause those circuit breakers to get hit. And you know what? Cool.

You should want that to buy lower. This is the lumber to gold ratio? Ah, yes. Can’t have an interview without lumber to gold.

It’s collapsed. You referenced it earlier in the conversation. What is this telling us right now? Yeah.

And this is what I was saying in March. So just as far as the order of events, utilities yen rallying, utilities outperforming equities starting late January alongside the yen. That’s risk off.

Long duration treasury started outperforming, also risk off. Lumber relative to gold initially spiked because tariffs caused a repricing of lumber that caused a risk on signal and then tailed off towards the end of March, which is why early March I was saying I think there’s going to be an air pocket in April as all the signals line up. I know this sounds complicated, but it’s very consistent with my ex feed.

The fact that lumber to gold has collapsed is very consistent again with everything that you see in risk off periods. Prior to major tail events, it’s not my opinion. It’s not some voodoo.

Lumber is a talent housing. Utilities are defensive bond like proxy. Treasuries are bonds, the pristine risk off asset.

Typically prior to prior, before these big declines, these areas will lead in advance. I put out various research papers that won awards that prove that. Anybody can look at the data, not trust me and just look at the numbers and see historically that’s a fact.

The fact that lumber to gold has been weak, treasuries have been strong, and utilities have been outperforming all prior to this in the weeks leading up to this is all consistent with history. I didn’t think it would play out in this way, just to be clear, but the conditions were there for the accident. The accident’s here.

Is this simply something to do with the real estate market as well, housing? Does this collapse in lumber to gold signal anything with housing? Yeah. I think it’s unequivocally the case. Now, I will say it is curious, wasn’t Besson, I think, five, six weeks ago said something along the lines of, we expect the housing market to unfreeze.

Remember that quote? I think Besson said that five, six weeks ago. That to me was interesting because it seemed like that was basically them saying we’re going to bring 30-year mortgage rates down. I put out that post, which got viral.

It’s like, isn’t it amazing that it seems like Trump is better at lowering 30-year mortgage rates than Powell? Yeah. Right? I mean, am I wrong on that? I mean- I mean, I prefer- The Fed cut rates. For all reasons.

Yeah. Yeah. When the Fed cut rates, what happened to 30-year mortgage rates? They rose.

Yeah. Let’s talk about the Fed now. What do you think the Fed’s going to do in a couple of weeks? FOMC meeting coming up, end of April.

Tell me about that. Tell me where credit spreads are, I’ll tell you what the Fed’s going to do. The Fed is going to do what it always does.

It’s going to follow the 10-year. It’s just going to follow what yields are doing anyway. The 10-year is going to move based on credit spreads and default risk perceptions.

I don’t think they’re going to do anything yet. If anybody hasn’t noticed, if you haven’t noticed, I don’t think Powell is a big fan of Trump’s, so he may not want to bail out equity markets just yet. But no, I think it’s going to be very hard to justify the Fed trying to cut rates, especially if the old economist view of tariffs are inflationary is what’s driving their decision making.

Okay. Well, right now, the CME FedWatch tool is pricing in a 73% chance of nothing happening. Yeah.

I think it’s less than it was, but it’s, you know- By May. Yeah. And then, yeah, not too much of a change by June.

Okay. This is just interesting. It’s Bill Ackman’s getting angry on Twitter.

Sometimes he’s even angry. You’re not the angriest person on Twitter all the time. I know.

It’s like weird, right? Everyone thinks I’m just like this like- I just figured out why Howard Lutnick is indifferent to the stock market and the economy crashing. He can’t do our long bonds. He profits from our economy implodes.

It’s a bad idea to pick a secretary of commerce whose firm is levered long fixed income. It’s an irreconcilable conflict of interest. I just figured out why you’re having a temper tantrum.

Your firm is heavily long US stocks. No disrespect to that, but isn’t that funny? Like, wasn’t he the one crying about COVID and he was buying stocks? Isn’t that a conflict of interest too? I don’t know. Am I remembering that right? I don’t know.

The point I’m making is, okay, long stocks, even apparently even the White House is long stocks. Sorry, long bonds. What am I talking about? Long bonds.

So, what’s the conclusion of my conversation? Unless Nancy Pelosi is long bonds, I don’t think it matters. I don’t think it’s going to tell on anything, honestly. Let’s end on this.

How worried are you going into Monday and the rest of the week? Are you selling your risk assets positions? Are you doubling down on bonds? Are you doing anything about this? Or are you just watching from the sidelines? My own funds are entirely rules-based and I mean, they’re in the right position. They’ve been in long duration treasuries. I think there’s a whipsaw risk.

I think personally, I think that equity will probably rebound pretty strongly before another wave lower and long duration yields might continue to kind of drift lower independent of that. So, you know, it’s like you have to be in it already rather than respond to it, right? If you’re going to try and play defense. But I think the problem with environments like this is everyone gets all hyped up and then they end up doing the exact wrong thing.

And the exact wrong thing is to panic when the move is already happening. You should be panicked before the move happens, not as it’s happening. So I just think it’s going to be volatile.

We’re in an age of turbulence. I think it’s very clear. Age of turbulence.

We’ll see what happens. Michael, thank you so much for jumping on late at night, Sunday night and staying up late to educate us. What’s the background? You look like it’s like a marble slate.

What is that? No, it’s this is my window. And it’s raining in Vancouver, as it usually does on an April day in Vancouver. And usually it’s dark right now, but usually you can see the skyline behind me.

But thanks for pointing it out. People have asked me if it’s an LED screen. No, it is not.

It is a real window. There you go. Michael, that’s good.

Good to catch up. Let’s speak in a couple of weeks. Take care for now.

Appreciate it.