Are The Elite about to LOSE CONTROL of the Silver Price? (Uncut) 03-23-2025

Are The Elite about to LOSE CONTROL of the Silver Price? | John Rubino

And, you know, if all the investment demand that is potentially out there in the world comes into silver, that would swamp anything that the bullion banks can do about it. And so you would just get investment demand replacing industrial demand or part of industrial demand and it will still be to the moon for silver, you know, there’s at a point. There’s no real way to stop something from going up.

If it’s if we’re running out of it, which is kind of the case with silver, there just isn’t enough left to cover all the potential demands on it out there. So the price has to at some point go up to balance things out. You’re watching cow because my name is Danny and today’s guest is John Rubino.

John. Thank you so much for coming on the show. My friend.

Hey Danny. Good to talk to you again. Likewise dive right in John lots of things going on in the world, but for you specifically, what is most topical on your radar screen at this very moment? Well, two big things are happening right now and they’re kind of related.

One is that, you know, if you’d asked me six months ago, what was the big risk in the world? I would have said World War 3, you know, we were blundering into a war with Russia by financing a proxy war using Ukrainians as cannon fodder and that was just terrifying because you know, you can have financial crises and and equity bear markets and stuff like that and which is what you know, people like you and I have been talking about for most of the past decade, but if you have a nuclear war all bets are off. It’s all over as far as civilization goes and that was the big thing. I was afraid of especially because I have to two kids.

I don’t want them to be incinerated in a nuclear Armageddon and we were distressingly close to that. I mean we were blundering into something like that and now we’re not anymore, you know, Trump and Putin are sitting down and you know, they may end up carving up Ukraine and that might be a separate issue, but they’re not threatening each other with nuclear weapons the way Putin and Biden. Did you hear about what Liz Truss had to say? There’s these leaked documents about a few months ago coming from the UK saying how like she was studying the wind currents and weather patterns coming towards the UK in the event that they that there should be a nuclear event.

So they were actually saying that we were on the precipice of a nuclear war sometime around 2022, you know 2022 during the early stages of the Ukraine war, but it never made publicity up until a few months ago. So they never told you how close you were to the precipice until until recently. Yeah, governments knew that a lot of them just didn’t seem to really care like in the US the neocons who were running the government during the Biden administration basically thought a nuclear war was survivable.

They thought that was a risk. They were willing to take in order to install the US as the world’s dictator for the next thousand years and they just thought 5% of the world’s population should rule the other 95% and they were willing to basically kill millions to get to that point. So yeah, I’m sure a lot of Europe was prepping in various ways for the fallout of a nuclear war and now what’s weird is that the US is trying to cut a deal with Russia and Europe’s not buying it.

They’re they’re gearing up for you know, a big military build-up with the objective of fighting a war with Russia and I don’t get it but to the extent that it makes us pull out of NATO, Okay, I’m antagonizing half your audience by saying all the stuff I’ve said so far. So why don’t I just go on and finish the job? We really shouldn’t be part of NATO anymore. That’s an anti-Russia military organization and Russia is no longer the Soviet Union.

You know, they could very easily be not necessarily friends because big powers have trouble being actual friends with each other but there we could coexist. We don’t have to risk nuclear war and we don’t have to spend a trillion dollars a year in the US and something approaching that in Europe on our militaries in order to fight this made up threat, you know, you know Russia’s GDP is much smaller than Germany’s obviously, but it’s also smaller than France’s. So we are, you know, now it’s not the US so much but it’s Europe that is thinking about this existential threat in the what is that the East from Europe and but it’s something that is economically smaller than France, you know, it just doesn’t make any sense unless you look at it from the point of view of the history of bad governments.

Now when you’re a government that mismanages your economy or your, you know, internal state of affairs in some other way, it’s very common to to look abroad for an enemy that you can point to as an existential threat that you have to counter to distract your people from the stupid mismanagement that you’re guilty of and I think to an extent, well some people in the US have that kind of a thought and Europe right now is thinking that way too. They’re thinking all right, we’re headed for a gigantic financial crisis and we’re basically committing cultural suicide. So let’s distract everybody from that by picking a fight with Russia because everybody’s always afraid of Russia.

Look how big they are on a map, you know, it’s stupid and to the extent that the US at least, you know, the US government isn’t participating in that anymore. That’s fantastic and that relieves the biggest risk. Now we can go on to the other risks that are out there that are still very real and very serious but manageable and investable.

What do you think of this recent post from Donald Trump? This recent story that’s come out about how he’s open to joining the United Kingdom Commonwealth under King Charles. Did you hear about this? No, I didn’t. So there’s a story from the Sun.

It says King Charles to make a secret offer to Donald Trump during the UK state visit. Well, it turns out that Donald Trump was very receptive to the notion of joining the Commonwealth. Is this just trolling or what’s going on here? Well, you know with Trump, you have to kind of go down a decision tree when he says something.

First, maybe he was trolling. Second of all, maybe he just didn’t understand what he was saying. And third, what is the 4-D chess objective here? Does he get what he’s saying, but is he trying for some out in left field thing that nobody’s connecting to the stuff he’s saying? And in the case of us joining the Commonwealth, I have no idea.

It could be any one of those things with Trump. But when you look at him teasing Justin Trudeau as being the governor of our 51st state and stuff like that, he’s just trolling in that case. Although, you know, it’s conceivable that some Canadian provinces would like to join the U.S. And so that could be a thing that evolves over time.

Same thing with Greenland where Trump says, oh, yeah, you know, one of the things that happens when you elect a real estate developer is that you get somebody who tends to see the world in terms of real estate, you know, and he looks at Greenland and says, my God, look, that is undervalued real estate right next to us here. And we could we could take that. And I said Greenland, right? Okay.

Yeah, Greenland. Okay. Yeah, Greenland.

So, you know, we could take that, we could develop it, we could make it worth 10 times what we bought it for, you know, that’s a very familiar thought process for Donald Trump to go through. So, you know, you have to look at the different things he could mean when he says something. And the British Commonwealth thing is just baffling, but who knows, maybe it’s a prelude to a really draconian trade deal with Britain because, you know, Britain is, they are, as a society, just collapsing.

They’re committing cultural suicide on a lot of different levels right now, and they get it. They know that they’re headed for basically extinction in terms of what they used to be. And it could be that they’re insecure enough for Trump to step in and say, all right, here’s a free trade deal that might save you, but I’m going to need this, and I’m going to need this, and I’m going to need this, and he’ll name some horrific things that, you know, that Britain, the former world’s most powerful empire, is never going to agree to, except that maybe they have to agree to it.

So, it could be that. That’s talking about the U.S. joining the British Commonwealth is the opening gambit in a process that leads to a super favorable trade deal between the U.S. and the U.K., super favorable for the U.S. So, could be. But anyhow, that’s what you have to do with all of Trump’s statements, especially his tweets.

You know, you got to figure out which of the many possibilities this one can be categorized as, and then look at it from that point of view. Yeah, he, he always leaves you guessing, but I don’t, that’s, that’s actually a strategy. It’s called strategic ambiguity, where you act crazy, and you’re, the people you’re negotiating with, have to take into the account that, into account that maybe you are crazy.

And so, they, they tend to give up more in the negotiations to, to make sure they don’t actually find out if you’re crazy. And, you know, Trump does that really well. Yeah, and then he, they’ve also kind of hinted towards war, not war, but conflict in the Indo-Pacific, as a, as a reason for detaching themselves from NATO, because now they have to focus on China, and to a lesser extent, Iran as well.

Well, see, that’s, you know, I’m, I’m hoping here, and I’m not speaking with any uncertainty or anything, but those sound like the opening gambits in a trade negotiation, or, or some other kind of negotiation, where you say, all right, look, the worst case scenario, scenario for you is nuclear war. So, what are you willing to do to avoid that? You know, and, and he’s seeing what kind of concessions are possible. And, you know, I’m hoping that’s the case, because I think that’s what the tariffs are, that Trump is imposing on everybody in sight.

It’s like, as a developer, he used to lead with lawsuits. So he would sue you over a real estate dispute. And then everything after that was you trying to make the lawsuit go away, because he has more money than you, and he can bankrupt you before you even get that thing resolved.

And so these tariffs are kind of the same thing. Like, we do not need trade with any other country, really, except for a handful of exotic minerals, rare earth elements, things like that. But everybody else needs trade with the US.

So Trump hits them with the trade equivalent of a lawsuit, threatens their economies, and then asks them what they’re willing to give up in negotiations to make it go away. And, you know, he’s got some stuff already with that, right? The Mexican border is closed. That’s a huge deal.

That was one of the biggest issues of the election that just got settled a few months ago, and now the border is closed. And Canada has agreed to put a fair chunk of their military on the border to stop fentanyl from coming in. So, you know, that kind of thing gets results when you have most of the cards, and the US has most of the cards in trade negotiations.

So now the downside of this is that we’re antagonizing our friends, and that’s not something you should do lightly, because nobody can get by in life, not the US, not any individual, not any other country, without friends. You know, you have to have relationships to be successful. And if we antagonize all the people that we used to be able to count on as friends, then we’re taking a huge risk.

So the best case scenario for how this plays out is that we cut deals. You know, the tariffs happen, we cut a deal that’s favorable for the US, but not onerous for our trading partner. The tariffs come off, and then normality returns.

You know, we go back to being kind of sort of what we were before that little family spat that we had. And I think that’s the goal. That’s Trump’s goal.

And we’ll see if it’s possible, because, you know, it could just be that we make everybody so mad that they look for other arrangements out in the world, and maybe, you know, the BRICS being what they are right now. There’s a structure out there that other countries could join and build, and it could be a whole separate thing from the US. You know, it was evolving in that direction.

And then Trump came in, and you never heard about the BRICS again. But if we go around antagonizing everybody, that just incents them to look for an alternative to the dollar. And, you know, there’s not really an alternative yet.

But boy, with all the central bank buying of gold, most of that within the BRICS countries, we’re heading in that direction. So let the gold buying continue. And then it could be that we’re not nearly as powerful in the trade world as we thought we were.

We’ll see. I don’t know. There’s a lot of ambiguity out there.

It’s very fascinating because you look at the price of oil. You would expect oil to rally on all these tariff talks and all the everything that’s going on. But it’s still around mid to slightly high 60s.

Well, what’s going on there? It seems like inflation is cooling down as well. Despite all these claims about tariffs causing inflation. Well, there’s two reasons for that.

One is that we’re kind of, and in part because the uncertainty with the tariffs and everything, we’re possibly tipping into a recession. And that’s bad for the price of oil. The other thing is that Trump’s energy policy is to produce as much oil and gas and uranium and coal even as possible in order to bring down the price of energy.

Now, there’s a fatal flaw in that plan because you need a fairly high price for, say, oil to incent companies to go out there and do the risky work that it takes to make an oil well, or at least a big oil well. And so the whole drill baby drill as a way of bringing down oil prices might not work in the long run. But right now it is kind of working.

You know, Trump is threatening to flood the world with newly drilled oil and that would be bad for the oil price too. So a lot of mixed messages in the oil market, but if we’re heading into a recession or if we’re heading into a glut of oil, that would lower the price and explain what’s happening right now. Yeah, and then the gold price just keeps on rising.

Evidently, it seems to be buying from central banks. But question is, why are they buying? And you have other derivative effects that we can get into after we kind of gloss over the main topic here. But you have all these you have massive short selling going on PSLV.

As opposed to SLV, what’s the signal there? But let’s kick it off with gold. What’s your view on the current gold price action here, John? It’s been a hell of a bull market, hasn’t it? Boy, you know, if two years ago we said $3,000 gold is coming, you know, everybody would go, yeah, yeah, the gold bugs are fantasizing again. And here it is very quietly.

Gold has gone from $2,000 to $3,000 an ounce. And part of that, like you said, it’s central bank buying and they’re not price sensitive because they’ve got a monetary policy objective where they feel like they have to have a certain amount of gold to back their currency in the event of the coming monetary reset or the bifurcation between the BRICS countries in the West or whatever, you know, they want a lot of gold to replace their treasury bonds. And the central banks are under orders to get that gold, you know, so that they aren’t really super sensitive to the price.

And that allows them to keep buying as gold goes up into very much uncharted territory. And the one other aspect of this is that, you know, debt continues to just rocket, especially in the West. I mean, the U.S. is in the first five months of this fiscal year, the U.S. took on a record amount of new debt and we’re on track for two trillion dollar plus deficit this year.

And it’s peacetime. You know, we’re not in a war. We don’t have any gigantic crisis going on out there, but we’re running crisis level deficits at the same time that the interest on the existing U.S. debt is going parabolic.

You know, we’re above a trillion dollars a year just in interest right now, which, of course, has to be borrowed, which raises the future deficit and so on. So we kind of, you can make the case that we’ve entered the currency death spiral for the world’s big fiat currencies. And that would explain aggressive gold buying out there, because anybody who understands monetary policy and can read a balance sheet or look at a chart of U.S. debt and understand what it means in relative terms to the past, they kind of want real assets, you know, so maybe they’re going to buy Bitcoin, maybe they’re going to buy gold, maybe they’re going to buy oil wells or farmland or whatever, but you want stuff that is not vulnerable to a currency crisis that occurs when a country’s debt just spins out of control and they have to devalue the currency really aggressively in order to prevent a 1930 style Great Depression.

And so the people who trust the currency are the ones who get screwed over. You don’t want to be one of those people. So you buy gold and that’s a big part of what’s happening now too.

Now silver might be the interesting story now going forward because it’s done really well lately too. I think, I don’t remember what the time frame was, but I saw somebody saying that silver has gone up slightly more in percentage terms than gold has in this period. I don’t remember what the period was, but lately silver’s been doing just fine.

But it’s still very cheap relative to gold. The gold silver ratio is in the high 80s low 90s right now, which is normally a ratio that is a buy signal for silver and either a hold or sell signal for gold. So it could easily be that silver is going to start its big run now, you know, in every precious metals bull market gold goes up and it goes up and it goes up and silver languishes for a little while and then towards the end everybody starts thinking in physical terms and envisioning say a Krugerrand, which is a small gold coin and then they look at 75 silver ounces sitting on a table and how gorgeous that would look and how much silver you get for that one ounce of gold and they switch to silver, you know, so silver buying goes through the roof.

It’s a super thin market and you know, the paper market in silver is a fractional reserve banking system where the leverage is like 101. So it doesn’t take a lot of buying of silver to basically just tap out the Comex and the London Metals Exchange and the other places where they’re supposed to be so physical silver waiting to be picked up, you know, and when that happens that that’s the parabolic part of this process where we start worrying about availability of silver not how much do you have to pay for it, but can you get any at all and then the industrial players who need silver like the solar panel companies have to get it at whatever price and then investors who don’t have enough silver catch a serious dose of FOMO, fear of missing out and they start buying and this little thin market goes straight up. So that’s where we get triple digit silver, you know, which I think we will get $100 silver is coming and it’s just a matter of the the way the dominoes have to line up and then be knocked over for how it happens.

Yeah, I have the charts pulled up here. I can share them with you. Actually, it does appear that silver has been moving in tandem with gold and as you well know silver is well gold is what kicks off the show silver is what closes the show.

So this is a year-to-date view on gold versus silver over time and they pretty much seem to be neck and neck over the last few months. Similarly over the last year one year view. They pretty much track each other.

Although you had episodes where silver vastly overtook gold, but they seem to be right on par at the moment gold slow slightly ahead up 38% year over year silvers up around little little under 34%. So definitely some movement there on both sides of the precious metals despite the fact that silver still hasn’t made an all-time high. Yeah, you know, if you go back to the peak of the last bull market in precious metals silver is way below its peak while gold is 50% up from its peak.

So there’s been been big Divergence since 2011 or so, which is when precious metals last peaked and there’s no reason for that because the industrial demand for silver has been going up dramatically. So the silver market is in deficit and has been for the last few years where the world’s silver mines aren’t producing enough silver to satisfy industrial and investment demand, which means we’re using up the silver stocks that we’ve had above ground, you know, wherever they are in vaults around the world. Nobody knows exactly how much silver there is out there that’s available, but we’re using it up.

Whatever wherever we started a decade ago, a lot of it is gone now and a lot of it continues to be taken off the market. So there’s a point at which a deficit turns into a shortage. And that shortage turns into panic buying in this kind of a process and you know, as long as the industrial demand for silver stays high and silver’s price relative to gold stays low, then it’s a decent buy, you know, it’s something that there will be dips, but the dips are to be bought in a market like that.

So whatever happens with silver in the next few months, especially if it goes down, that’s one of those good things. They put something that is objectively valuable on sale. And if you don’t have enough, that’s an opportunity to get yourself topped up to where your stack is as big as it should be.

So, you know, mixed feelings about a correction in the next six or so months. It would hurt if you’ve got a lot of precious metals already, but it’s also maybe the last buying opportunity in this cycle and you should take advantage of it when the time comes. What do you make of this recent huge short volume going on with PSLV? Lots of short positions being taken up on PSLV.

I’ll get it pulled up here in a second, but compared to SLV, there’s barely anything on the SLV side. Are they trying to keep the price of PSLV down so the, I guess the custodians over there don’t have to go into the silver spot market and buy more silver in the event that PSLV continues to go up? It’s often been the case that it’s often been known that SLV, there’s a rehypothecation problem there. You’ve got multiple claims on the same unit of silver, whereas on PSLV, they actually have to go down to the silver spot market and buy more silver if that PSLV’s price goes up.

Oh, I see what you’re saying. Yeah. So if PSLV is trading above net asset value, they issue stocks and use the proceeds to buy more metal.

Okay. I mean, preventing that is something that might happen when people behind the scenes start running out of silver. So yeah, that could be an explanation for it.

I never understand the technical side of what happens with the ETFs because there’s always something weird going on with somebody naked shorting this and pulling metal out. And most of the time, it hasn’t really resulted in any extreme movements or anything, but it’s completely understandable. Now, I’ll let you finish your thought really quick.

I pulled up a chart here for you to look at. That is amazing short volume, you know? Yeah, so you’ve got PSLV here in yellow and then SLV here in red. Yeah.

And you can tell all the short buying is on the PSLV side. Yeah. Okay.

You know, when a market that is somewhat manipulated and it’s a fractional reserve banking kind of market and when trouble starts happening behind the scenes, you should expect weird stuff to go on in the market as the big players try to get themselves out of trouble. So something like what’s happening in PSLV. Okay, you know, it could be that, you know, it could be some of the big holders of physical silver or the big people on the hook with futures contracts that they don’t know what to do with like the exchanges.

Yes, that could be a very real possibility. And we could also see an engineered bear market for these metals as a way of getting the big holder of silver shorts out at lower prices. That’s something that people have been claiming that’s been going on forever where, you know, wash, rinse, repeat in the Comex.

And it wouldn’t surprise me if something like that happened on a big scale here. But again, that would just be the last really good dip to buy if it happens. So, you know, I almost want, not that I should really be buying more silver.

I’ve been stacking for a long time. But it’s easy to see some machinations behind the scenes leading to a correction or, you know, something worse than a correction in gold and silver right now. And in part because gold just broke through what ought to be a serious resistance level.

You know, 3000 ought to have a lot of people stacked up right there wanting to take profits. And that hasn’t yet happened yet. Although Friday was a pretty hard day for gold.

And, you know, same thing that we were talking about with oil. If we’re tipping into a recession, then inflation hedges are less interesting for a lot of people. And that could be a reason for a big dip in gold and silver.

So, you know, it’s not just a straight shot to the moon, or at least it very seldom is in a bull market. So expect sometimes stomach-churning corrections as this goes on. And just, you know, I would just advise keeping your eyes on the prize, which is, you know, gold $10,000 or so dollars an ounce and silver a couple of hundred dollars an ounce as this really plays out.

You know, that’s what it’s going to look like when we finally do the currency reset. And in the meantime, there will be all kinds of manipulation and all kinds of corrections and spikes and, you know, it’ll be a very volatile market. But if we’re looking at where we want to end up and where we expect to end up, then the corrections are buying opportunities.

And, well, I’ll add one more thing there. No individual correction is a 100% buying opportunity. Do not use the next drop in gold and silver to put all your money in, you know, continue to add gradually over time, but just add a little more if you get a really nice correction.

But you never know what the next correction will be after that. So you don’t want to 100% invest in precious metals or anything else until it’s so obvious that, you know, it’s FOMO everywhere you look and then, you know, pay up what you have to pay up at the end to get completely topped off. But for now, gradual buying, dollar cost averaging is what we still should be doing with a little bit of bias towards the upside when there’s a correction.

So anyhow, long-winded answer for what is very simple investment advice, you know, keep stacking. Yeah, but nothing on this video is financial advice, guys. I’m not a financial advisor, neither is John.

This is just our opinion. John, I think we’ve covered pretty much everything on the gold and silver front, unless you had something in mind. The one thing that sticks out with silver for me is that there is this huge incentive, especially on the military industrial complex side, to keep the price of silver down.

That’s one thing I just can’t get over is it would behoove the powers that be, i.e. Lockheed Martin, Boeing, etc. Especially if, you know, we may or may not have a war with China or Iran. Europe may have a war with Russia, but the U.S. won’t be a party to it from the looks of it.

But it seems like we’re heading towards this revolutionary stage in history, and it would kind of behoove the military industrial complex to see rising input costs for their weaponry, does it not? Behoove them to see rising input costs? Yeah, on the part of silver. So if the price of silver goes up, it would effectively increase your input costs to create more weaponry that relies on silver. Yeah, I mean, I think they have an incentive to keep their input costs low because they’re profit-making entities, you know, and so it’s possible that the defense contractors via bullion banks or hedge funds or whoever might get involved in trying to suppress the price of silver and might, you know, might have been involved in doing that for the past 20 years, who knows? But they would have to suppress the price of gold as well, because if gold keeps going up and silver doesn’t because the defense contractors via the bullion banks are suppressing it, then everybody else in the world looks at that gold silver ratio of, you know, it gets to be 110.

It’s only been up in the hundreds very briefly in the past. So it doesn’t have to go up much from here for people to be seeing a really historic divergence and the people who understand that divergence to just start buying like crazy and, you know, if all the investment demand that is potentially out there in the world comes into silver, that would swamp anything that the bullion banks can do about it. And so you would just get investment demand replacing industrial demand or part of industrial demand and it will still be to the moon for silver, you know, there’s at a point there’s no real way to stop something from going up if it’s if we’re running out of it, which is kind of the case with silver.

There just isn’t enough left to cover all the potential demands on it out there. So the price has to at some point go up to balance things out and there’s lots of ways that could happen. But one way is that one part of the economy suppresses the price but another part swamps that suppression with panic buying and that would be fun.

You know, it would be pretty cool to see that happen in that way if that’s how it does happen. Yeah. Yeah, totally makes sense.

Well anything else you want to talk about John? I think I’ve like I said, I’ve covered pretty much everything I had on the table here. Anything else you want to bring up that we didn’t get to or if not, we can just go ahead and wrap it up here. Yeah, just a couple of really quick things, you know, the all the gloom and doomy stuff that we talked about.

Although we’re a lot less gloom and doomy now that we’re not headed for World War III. But this is all basically an investment thesis. So don’t think of it as oh my God, hell on earth is coming.

Think of it as, oh, here’s a chance, you know, a chance to to invest wisely into a really big thing that’s going to have a lot of opportunities that will allow us to protect our families going forward, you know, because it’s a positive thing in that sense and it makes the world somewhat less scary. And then the other thing is that there’s lots of things besides investing that we ought to be doing. There’s all kinds of prepping stuff that a reasonable person should be looking at now because it’s completely possible that heading into the currency reset supply chains get very messy and it’s not that easy to get the things that we need day to day.

So, you know, the things we used to kind of make fun of preppers and survivalists for are worth looking at. Learn to grow your own food, get as handy as possible, learn to fix a car and do drywall and electrical stuff and be a welder, you know, all of those things are something that our generation or my generation, the boomers who grew up in a time when basically financial jobs were the best jobs, you know, we kind of, a lot of us just don’t know how to take care of ourselves and we really should be learning those things. So we have limited time on the boomer side of it.

But guys, your age, Danny, really ought to be looking at developing or stacking skills, you know, to use the term they use in career counseling. And that’s a good thing to start looking into now. I see.

Yeah, you never know. I mean, do not take this moment of respite that we’ve seemingly found ourselves in for granted. I totally agree.

You know, this is because when things start going hot and heavy, if they should ever again, then you’re not going to have time to start stacking skills or start stacking goods and prepping. It’s really during the, you’ve got to make hay while the sun’s still out. And it seems like the sun’s still out as of right now.

So very good points here, John. Tell people where they can find you if they want to hear or see more. I’m at rubino.substack.com and I publish a newsletter there that is basically aimed at all the stuff we talk about.

Actionable advice for what is going to be a multifaceted crisis coming up soon. All the things we can do to protect ourselves and to develop resilience. And so far so good.

Awesome. We’ll have the links to the Substack down below. So be sure to check it out, guys.

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It’s an easy way to kind of help me in the process as well. So with all that said, thank you guys for watching. John, thank you for coming on and I will catch you in the next episode.

Bye all.