Bitcoin to $850K & Gold to $3.8K? (Uncut) 02-06-2025

Bitcoin to $850K & Gold to $3.8K? Dr. @udoamend Explains The Math!

We believe that Bitcoin will reach the market capitalization of gold, and that would be a price of $850,000. Please welcome Dr. Udo Amen. He’s an expert in business and financial consulting, as well as an expert in cryptocurrency and gold.

He’s also written a book, Bitcoin Gold, The Road to Freedom. Dr. Amen, welcome to Wealthion. Thanks for joining me.

Well, welcome and thanks for having me. So the book, Bitcoin Gold, The Road to Freedom, explain to me why that is. Well, I’m head of a family office since 1994.

So this year, it’s actually 30 years. And historically, we’re managing quite a huge portfolio of over 130 positions on a global base. And gold was always a very important hatch in our portfolio.

We are very much U.S. oriented, especially today, not so much China, not so much Europe, very much to the U.S. But gold always was a major hatch. And when other people were talking about 2% to 5%, we already had about 20% hatch in the portfolio in physical gold, not talking certificates, talking physical gold. So we historically come from classical portfolio management, 60-40 with bonds and shares plus gold.

And obviously, in 2008, 2007, when we had the financial crisis, in 2008, the white paper came up regarding Bitcoin and first mining took place in February 2009. And actually, our channel, we have a channel on Bitcoin and gold, we started immediately in 2009. We were one of the very first adopters talking about Bitcoin because me, myself, I have a technical education and also in the economy side.

And I was very well aware already after the financial crisis that a decentralized currency or store of value, as I would say today, could be a great thing in addition to gold. And we very early saw that Bitcoin could be digital gold. And when we look to Blackhawk, what happened a year ago and all the huge investment companies, they talk more or less the same thing.

So we talk about Bitcoin as digital gold. And so, this is what we are in. And this is why I wrote the book recently, just comparing the old history of 5,000 years gold and the modern blockchain technology, which means decentralized store of value and transfer of value because gold is not so easy to transfer, but obviously, digital currencies can transfer very easily.

And this is why I wrote the book. And it’s about 250 pages. And I try to look in detail and to compare the two assets.

This is basically why I wrote the book. And if you want the book, we’ll put the link to your website up on the screen so people can see the book and read the book and get your insights. I apologize, I should have started with this is your first time on Wealthyam.

Tell us a little bit about you and how you got started in the financial world. Well, as I said, I started engineering and went actually to a Harvard Business School because I used to work for Molex. A couple of years ago, the Koch brothers bought Molex, one of the largest suppliers for connectors in the automotive industry.

This is my personal background. I worked for Molex for more than 10 years in Chicago and in South Africa, in Hong Kong and Singapore. And when I turned about 35, I gave up the job.

I was a marketing director for Europe at that time, very young age. And I gave up and I started my own little investment company. But very quickly, I realized that the greater thing is the stock market.

So in 1994, I started the family business, which is really family. We have no external investors. We don’t want this.

This is why we have a company in Switzerland. Our investors are welcome, but not in the family business. So for more than 30 years, I’ve been trading.

We have a family office. All in all, we have probably 15 to 18 people in Switzerland, Germany and in Mallorca. And we do really day trading.

We sometimes do even heavy trading. We have quite a huge volume. And so we have three pillars on our business model.

Number one is I’m in finance, the website. We later will have a look on our current models. When we offer copy trading, a lot of people want to follow our trade decisions.

We do this on our financial buys more or less. And then we have in Switzerland, an investment company. And here we offer products and combinations of Bitcoin and gold.

So before 19, well, when you got into this in 94, you said you got into Bitcoin in 2008, 2009, where you were into equities before that. I would assume the stock market. Yeah.

As I just said, in 1994, we started. Yeah. As I just said, stock market, bonds, everything more or less.

But at that time, I mean, crypto was not a subject, not at all. I mean, at that time, the late 90s, early 2000s, Internet was the name of the game. And at that time already, it was very clear that Internet has a problem because you can transfer information very nice and easy, but you cannot transfer value.

And it was pretty clear in the late 90s, long before the financial crisis, that there has something to come on a cryptographic base to send value. And obviously, this is what happened after the financial crisis with Bitcoin coming up. Yeah, this is what it is.

But we were long before. Right. What are your thoughts on the stock market presently? Is it something that you look at, watch? I know that it’s Bitcoin and gold, but is the stock market something that you look at? Yeah, well, sure.

I mean, as I just said, we trade the stock market on a daily basis. We have a portfolio in the moment of 130 different positions, primarily in the United States. Why? Because we see the conflict between the US and China and Europe, maybe because of tariffs or all sorts of things nobody really knows.

So we are very much focused on US titles. But we always have been because the biggest market in the world, when you look in the stock market, is the United States. And when you look at the S&P 500 and you compare it with the MSIC world, I mean, probably 80% from MSIC world is the S&P 500.

So we are very much focused on this. And yeah, and in the last couple of years, Bitcoin came up and we started, and later we will see this, we started really to go into it in 2016 on a mathematical base, because we realized that Bitcoin is completely different from every other asset we had before. But we will come to this point, I think, later on.

Thanks so much for watching our discussion here on Wealthion. If you would like help with your wealth efforts, please head over to Wealthion.com for a free portfolio review. So explain to me that how is crypto and Bitcoin so different than other equities? Right now, it goes up, it goes down, obviously not regulated.

But how is it? Can you explain to us how it is different than your average equity that you, you know, any stock that you’d pick off the shelf? Well, before we look into the charts, because I will explain a little bit this on the charts. Bitcoin, when you compare Bitcoin with other assets, it follows rhythms. First of all, we have every four years, we have the halving, meaning that the miners rewarding is cut by 50%.

This is a very important thing. It just recently took place in April 1824. So every four years, you have this halving, which means in the moment to die only 450 Bitcoin, new Bitcoin come on the market.

So this is number one. Number two is it’s limited to 21 million in 2140, but already to die about 19.8 million Bitcoin are mined. And there is only a little bit more than 1 million Bitcoin, which can be mined from now up until 2040.

So it’s pretty clear that this is an asset, which follows rules. And I think to go into this, I have to show here on the chart quickly the long term behavior of Bitcoin. And by understanding the long term, it becomes very clear what the situation is.

What we see here is a regression model of Bitcoin starting. And you see that Bitcoin follows rules. First of all, every four years you have a halving.

And in between for four years, you always have a peak of price. And also you see that it always goes down to the bottom. This model we developed, what you see here in 2016.

And this model predicts the price because of a logarithmic regression, which is part of Bitcoin. A lot of people don’t realize this up until 2040. So why is it we say Bitcoin follows mathematical rules? Well, yes, we had the ETFs, for example.

We have political rumors. Donald Trump or Cynthia Loomis is talking about reserves. All very nice.

But the Bitcoin itself has its own rules. Why? It’s a global decentralized network. Nobody has control over it.

This is not the same like with Ethereum or XRP, where you have a central player. With Bitcoin, you have no central player. So Bitcoin follows its own rules and no other asset has a mathematical intrinsic rule on a logarithm base.

This is what it is. And we found out in 2015, 2016, these rules and our investment behavior was very much based on these rules. And we were, by the way, very successful with this.

So what we do is we make four years plans for the Bitcoin. And this is our actual plan for the existing Harvard period, which will end in 2018. And what you see here is, and this is very interesting, we used Python.

Python is a language for artificial intelligence already in 2015, a long time ago. Today, a lot of people talk about this. And what we did, we analyzed the price behavior of Bitcoin from the starting point in order to understand what Bitcoin is doing.

And what you see in the moment is that our model here has only a variance of nearly $3,000. So what you see is, you see a reality of the price. And then you see our price prediction up until April 28.

And what is very important to understand Bitcoin is that Bitcoin follows these rules. It always did in the past. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have this model.

And this is interactive. You can really go on the website, you go inside and you see what the price evolution will be. So our prediction is that the price by the end of the year will be about 230,000 euros, but then it will drop down again to about 90 to 100,000.

And then it will end up with 150,000. This is, I think, the difference. A lot of people are talking huge numbers of millions and this and that.

We don’t do that. We know from history that Bitcoin follows his own mathematical rules. And this is how we act, meaning being long up until the end of the year, then going short and then going long in terms of investment strategy.

So that first graph you showed us shows higher lows and higher highs, but the graph seems to be flattening out a little bit. Do you expect that the price of Bitcoin will eventually reach a high and not get any higher? Well, I jumped to another chart to give you an answer. This is top assets on a global base and you see gold on number one with over 18 trillion.

And you see Bitcoin on seven with two trillion. You see silver on nine with 1.7. So what do we expect? Let’s talk about the global situation. The global situation is we have 320 trillion dollar debt on a global base.

We have GDP on a global base of 100 trillion. So we have three times more debt on a global base than GDP. And we have assets around about 480,000 trillion.

This is the global situation. And why is this important? From the 480,000 trillion in assets today, gold is only 3.5% with 18.6%. And as you can see, Bitcoin is two. So the difference between gold and Bitcoin is one to nine.

What we think and what the model says, you’re right, it will flatten out. And I quickly jumped to the other chart that we see this. A regression model means always that it will flatten out.

This is absolutely clear. And also the volatility will get less and less in the future. But if Bitcoin, and this is in our opinion, very likely is going to reach the same market capitalization like gold.

To say it again, 3.5% is gold today. And Bitcoin is maybe, I don’t know, 0.0, something like this. Now, if Bitcoin will reach the market capitalization of gold, the Bitcoin price would be $850,000.

It’s very easy to calculate. And this is what we believe. We believe that in 2030, not in 28, because we need another cycle.

And in 28, the fifth cycle, the end, and the sixth cycle will start. And the sixth cycle, according to our model, we believe that Bitcoin will reach the market capitalization of gold. And that would be a price of $850,000.

Wow. So do you view Bitcoin as an equity, as a currency, or a store of value? Well, I think it’s a process. When Bitcoin started, nobody took notice.

I think it started only with a bull run in 16, 17, when Bitcoin jumped from, I don’t know, $600 to $19,000. And people started to realize, but we still didn’t take it serious. And because when it crashed down to $4,500, which is pretty normal for Bitcoin, it has to crash.

And then we had the COVID pandemic, and Bitcoin was on $3,500. And a lot of people said, well, Bitcoin is dead and will never come back. And it went up to $69,000 in the middle of a pandemic.

So this shows by itself that this is a different asset. I mean, yes, we had a V recovery on the stock market in 20. Also, especially on the tech side, this is true.

But in the last 10 years, the best performing asset in the world is Bitcoin. And then there is something else we are always looking at on a daily basis, because also to talk about gold, we have to talk about McDonald’s and the Big Mac Index. The Big Mac Index says that in the last five years, the increase of price on the global base was 50%.

Gold increased in value also in 50% in the last five years. By the way, we had yesterday a new all-time high of $2,800. Well, gold didn’t increase in value, and the Big Mac didn’t increase in value.

I mean, you still eat it. But it shows the devaluation of the dollar. It shows the devaluation of the dollar and the euro.

It is the same thing in euro, by the way. It goes hand in hand. So the average inflation rate, we reckon, is 10% and will stay with 10%.

When they talk about 3% and 2% and 4%, we don’t believe this. We believe it will be 10% because in the last five years, it was 10%. And this is very easy to see when you look at gold, and this has nothing to do with Bitcoin, and you look at the Big Mac Index.

So the thing is that, to answer your question, for us, Bitcoin is clearly a store of value today. It’s not a currency. But this can change because the higher the price goes, we will not talk about Bitcoin anymore.

I would say in two years, nobody talks about Bitcoin. Everybody will talk about Satoshis. One Satoshi is one million of a Bitcoin.

And as the Bitcoin reaches, let’s say, $850,000 or $900,000, or let’s say $1 million, something crazy is going to happen. One Satoshi will be $1. And by that time, we believe it’s good possible that Bitcoin could become a sort of currency.

But this is very much a political thing. Do the United States want this? Do Russia want this? Do China want this? This is very hard to predict. But in the moment, it’s a store of value.

And the idea of decentralized payments is really minor. So our president, who happens to love his Big Mac, also likes cryptocurrency and Bitcoin and wants to start a fund, I guess, or a store of value of crypto for the country. Do you see this as a benefit because of your valuation and your charts showing that it’s going to continue to go up and by the end of this decade should be around $850,000? Well, I don’t want to make here any political statements.

I’m just talking about how we see the subject of store of value. As I just said, we believe that Bitcoin will reach the level of gold. And for this reason, it makes a lot of sense for central banks in the world, and they do this, by the way, this is not only America, to think about reserve.

I mean, like America has gas reserves, has oil reserves, they have obviously bond reserves, they have gold reserves. So it makes a lot of sense to look into it. But I say to look into it.

To look into it means the same happened, by the way, yesterday in Czech in Europe, they decided the parliament officially to investigate could it make sense to have a Bitcoin reserve. What we realize in the United States is not so much Donald Trump, it’s the states itself, Ohio, I think you have already 11 states who are working on laws on the state side to bring in Bitcoin as a reserve for their local budget. So a lot of people are working, when you go to the Middle East, you go to Emirates, for example, recently helping there for a meeting, or you go to Oman or Abu Dhabi, or you go to Saudi Arabia, wherever you go in the Middle East, we invest like crazy in mining, because we have solar energy for virtually nothing.

And they all think about getting on the balance sheet, on the state balance sheet Bitcoin. How long will it take? Probably not more than 12 months, I’m pretty sure. If America is going to front run, I don’t know.

I mean, Trump said he wants to. David Sachs has the job to look into it and into regulation, because we’re probably in Europe, we have MECA, we have a sort of regulation, which is very restricted, by the way, not good. So United States has the great advantage to come up with regulation, because the Biden administration obviously was not willing to do so.

So for example, the numbers from Tesla were great, because we’re allowed to renew rules starting in January to show unrealized gains on Bitcoin. And this is why I had a huge profit yesterday or the day after. So we will see a lot of companies in the United States coming up with having Bitcoin on their balance sheet.

The banks are allowed now to do so since a couple of days. The last thing will be the state, the national state of the United States, but I think front running will be the states. Ohio, I think is very far already.

They see just the store of value and I think a lot of people understand. And then you have MicroStrategy. I mean, they buy like every day.

You had a share voting with Microsoft. Yes, they said no in the first place, but maybe META is coming tomorrow and is going to put it on the balance sheet. You have Block and all these companies.

It’s unstoppable. I’m pretty sure that Bitcoin is a store of value also because of BlackRock. BlackRock, the biggest success story.

I mean, it took them 20 years for the gold ETF, what they managed in 12 months as a success for Bitcoin. So unstoppable and it will come. So you mentioned that you made a lot of money on Bitcoin as it rose yesterday.

Do you lock in that gain and wait for it to go down a little bit and buy again? Or do you just let it ride? Obviously, towards the end of the year, if it should rise significantly, maybe it’s just better to hang on to it. Or do you lock in that gain, let it come down, buy it back and trade it often? Well, I don’t know what we will do in the future, but I can say what we did in the past. In 2017 was a bull run and 2021 was a bull run.

So we experienced two bull runs. And in both bull runs, well, we sold too early, like you always do. You never trade at the right time and you buy too late.

This is what it is. So this is why we changed our strategy when the last bear market started, which was in 2022. And we said, well, we do pretty much what MicroStrategy is doing, by the way.

Not that we have something to do with MicroStrategy, but we do more or less the same. But we said we do cost average. I mean, we realized the gains, as I said, too early and then it’s hard to get in.

This is the usual problem on the stock market. So then we decided, believing in the future of Bitcoin, that we have our own cost average model means we buy every Monday Bitcoin, we don’t look at the price. Wow.

1. So, Dr. Armin, we talk about Bitcoin, but when you go to any of these cryptos like Coinbase, I have a Coinbase account, I have my Bitcoin, but I can look at so many different cryptocurrencies. Why are there so many? And they seem to be going up, not as dramatically as Bitcoin has, but there’s copycats, I guess.

And what will happen to the rest of them when Bitcoin takes off, as you say, Will? Well, I think we should have a quick look on the dominance of Bitcoin. This helps a lot to understand when we talk about crypto. In the moment, the dominance of Bitcoin, the total market, the total market of crypto is about 3.2 billion, something like this, maybe 3.3, 3.4 or something.

So 59% of this is Bitcoin, as we just saw, it’s 2 billion. And then there is another 17, 18% Ethereum. So when you just take Ethereum and Bitcoin, you end up with nearly 80%.

So when you talk about crypto, you have two coins of, let’s say, 75 to 80% who are established. I mean, Bitcoin, because of proof of work, absolutely for us, the only investment we would never, ever invest in anything else than proof of work, because this is the maximum of security. We’ll just have a look on the hashtag in a couple of minutes.

So this is the number one and it’s nearly 60%. Now, Ethereum is staking. It’s not decentralized.

It’s a foundation in Switzerland, by the way, in Zug, where we are located. We know a lot of these guys. It’s a central thing.

It’s very successful, but it has a use case called smart contract, which Bitcoin doesn’t have. So there is absolutely, it’s a great thing that there’s a store of value, which is called Bitcoin. There is a use case, which is called Ethereum, the smart context, but that’s it.

All the rest, yeah, let’s say you have another three, four or five, maybe you have XRP, they dream about central CDBCs, which Donald Trump said, we will never do it, but this is what they dream about. So they look into the banks, but they have not a real use case. We have Cardano, Solana and all these guys.

Let’s say there are 10 coins who maybe have one day a use case. And I think there are 50,000 coins out in the market. So maybe you have the two, then you have maybe, I don’t know, six, and that’s it.

What is the rest? The rest is casino. I mean, you had the baseball cards in the past and that type of thing. And you could see it with Donald Trump when he came up, which I see very critical with his own meme coin and Milano came up with meme coin.

This is gambling. A lot of people lose a lot of money. This is absolutely rubbish, in my opinion.

So there will be a consolidation in the next two, three years. You will have all these meme coins. I mean, there’s nothing you can do about it, but the US has to find a regulation and David Sachs, I’m pretty sure, I mean, he is co-founder from PayPal.

He knows about this industry. I think they will find between the House of Representatives and the Senate’s rules for the United States that the customers can benefit because it’s very risky in the moment. I mean, people play around and they lose money.

Basically, they lose. This is what it is. Probably 70, 80% loses money.

That was going to be one of my questions. Do you think there will be a consolidation? So just be careful is what you’re saying. It’s Bitcoin, it’s Ethereum, and maybe a couple others have a chance, but those are the big ones and keep an eye on those.

And according to your charts, if you do just hang on to those, you will do very, very well over time. I mean, you’re talking about eight or eight and a half X on Bitcoin alone towards the end of the decade. So that’s a pretty good return.

I think a lot of people would sign up for that. Well, no financial advice. Nobody knows what the future will be.

Our approach is to look in the past and to check history. And yes, with Python, which we are using for a couple of years, this is a very helpful tool doing this. And we believe that Bitcoin will go his way.

And another thing we should talk about now, I think, is gold, because we have also here, this is why it’s quite nice, I think, to look at the chart. We had yesterday a new all-time high of over $2,800. And what you see here is the evolution of gold since the 1970s.

And even more interesting, we have it underneath. This is all our own data, by the way. It’s not available on the market.

We have it on a logarithmic way. And what we believe is that we will see the same thing what happened in the 70s up until the 80s, only on a logarithmic basis, you see what happened to Bitcoin. This was after Pratt & Woods when Nixon gave up the gold standard and gold exploded.

And we believe that pretty much the same will happen in this decade. Why? You have the overall political uncertainty in the world. You have a huge debt situation with over 300 children.

Even if you have on a global basis, let’s say 3% growth, which would be a lot, nobody will be able to pay the debt. So it has to be inflated away. And this will try for gold price.

And here we have a very interesting model we developed already a couple of years ago. And this is Bitcoin gold model. Now, what did we do? We analyzed based on Python the behavior of Bitcoin in gold in the past.

We don’t show it here. We went back up until 2009, but the chart would be too big to show everything. So this is why it starts in 20 with the last bull run.

And what you see here is that you have a vice versa situation between Bitcoin and gold. By the way, historically, there was a vice versa situation between the US dollar and gold, which is not in place so much anymore because of the overall political situation. But with Bitcoin and gold, you can see it very nice.

Even Bitcoin outperforms gold or vice versa. Knowing this, we made a projection for the gold price because we have a Bitcoin model which says 150,000 by the end of this cycle. And we more or less calculated what will be the gold price to be based on the behavior since 2009.

So by the end of, to put it short, in April 28, our projection for gold is $3,800. A thousand dollar more when to die. And then we have another model here.

This model shows starting January 24, if you would have invested 50% of your capital in gold and 50% in Bitcoin, not all your capital, but let’s say from your portfolio, you say, well, I take 10% and I put it in Bitcoin and gold 5% each. You would have made 93% profit. And why is this interesting? Because the 50% gold is the hatch on the Bitcoin.

Our old philosophy we have since 30 years. This is why we have this investment company in Switzerland. In Switzerland, we offer these combination products, but we only offer them to Austria, Switzerland, and Germany due to regulation terms we have to follow because we are regulated as an investment company.

But it shows the potential to get the two worlds together, the old world of gold, sort of value, and the new world of Bitcoin. And well, we believe that this will carry on. So if someone splits in gold and Bitcoin in order to hatch with Bitcoin, it’s probably a very good thing doing so.

So there’s a relationship between the way gold acts and the way Bitcoin acts. Were you saying that there was an, maybe I misunderstood, were you saying that there was an inverse relationship or do they go on the same path? No, it’s inverse. It is inverse.

You see the chart here again. This chart goes back in January 20, as you can see. So gold, green line is the Bitcoin.

And you see the last bull run. This is one nice thing. You see the last bull run.

And the interesting thing is that you see history and future because I go here now. I don’t know. Yeah, this is now January.

Okay. This is January. And you see here we are today.

So Bitcoin and gold is very close together. Okay. But the breakout of Bitcoin will come and gold will not follow the breakout.

Then the bear market will start in January 26 for Bitcoin and gold because historically this took place because as people go out of risk investment, which Bitcoin obviously is, and sometimes they go out too late, they lose money, they have to sell gold to cover the losses, blah, blah, blah, margin calls and all that type of thing. So historically, always gold was affected by the Bitcoin drawdown as well. But then the changing point comes.

Bitcoin reaches his power low, say around about 100,000. And here now gold will perform better than the Bitcoin up until the end of a halving of Bitcoin. This is basically what this model says.

So hang on to your Bitcoin until the end of the year. And then it’s all about gold from there is what this model is telling you. And that by 2028, gold will be higher than Bitcoin.

So what this model says is don’t invest just in Bitcoin, don’t invest just in gold. What this model says, hedge your risk. As I just said, we buy every Monday.

Well, we don’t buy gold every Monday because for many decades we have reserves, but Bitcoin we do cost average. So the thing is, if you do both, you equal out, as you can see on the chart, the breakouts on both sides. Yeah, that’s basically what it is.

And it’s an investment strategy. You can do or not. I mean, if you want to maximize your profits, well, you go on Bitcoin, but maybe you lose.

When you’re very conservative, you go on gold. But when obviously, well, gold made in 2024, 37% profit based on US dollars. So gold was performing very well in 24.

And as we just see, because of China, Federal Reserve of China is buying like crazy gold to hedge. And they bought 2,000 tons of gold in 2023 and 2024. And they drive a gold price.

That’s what it is. And it’s diversify. It’s like diversifying to some Bitcoin, some gold, and you’ll be fine.

That’s what your models are telling us. So when one is down, the other one’s up, and you’re in good shape. This is why I wrote a book because the whole book relates to this idea to get the old world and the new blockchain world together.

This is the idea. Yes. That was one of my questions.

Does each one of these coins come with their own blockchain? And can the blockchains talk to each other? Well, first of all, you’re right. Each of these projects, they come up with their own blockchain. That’s true.

And this is very much based off of the idea of use case they follow. I mean, they have different ideas. I’m not talking about meme coins now because meme coins are collectibles, baseball cards.

This is not what I’m talking about. But I’m talking like XRP is a good example. XRP, Brett Garlinghouse, has the idea of a banking solution.

Let’s say it like this. Donald Trump says now, well, he is more into stablecoin terror to stabilize the dollar, which I think is a good idea. It’s better than CBDCs because CBDCs, this is Brett Garlinghouse, this is XRP, this is controlling the people and the money flow.

Not a good idea. The ECB socialist Europe has these ideas, which is not good in this way. America is better off.

But you’re right. All of them, they have blockchains. But then there is one which is Solana.

And Solana, a lot of people don’t know, lives from meme coins. So the only use case from Solana is the meme coins, like the Trump meme coin or Melania. It’s all on Solana.

So their use case is, well, and meme coins can be a use case. I mean, if a famous person comes up with his own meme coin and people buy it and pump it and dump it, well, that’s fine. But the serious companies, which is maybe eight or ten, not more, they are focused on decentralized finance or DeFi, it’s called solutions, DeFi solutions.

And yeah, the future will show what’s going to happen. One thing which is very certain is what your opinion from BlackRock is. We will see a massive tokenization on the stock market.

I mean, this will die with stocks buying and selling. This will come to an end. We will see a tokenization.

And some of these companies have the blockchain solutions to tokenize the stock market. It will be faster. It will be cheaper.

And yeah, it will be better. This will definitely come. Well, Dr. Ren, I really want to thank you for joining me.

And I want to reiterate, this is your website. And all of this, if you go to your website, you can see all this research. So if you want to do your own research or get some insight from Dr. Ahmed, head over to his website and we’ll put the website URL up on the screen because this was awesome.

You can see everything you told us is right there in graphs and charts. So I appreciate that. Thank you so much for joining me.

The book, Bitcoin and Gold is right there as well. So you can purchase that to read. And thank you so much for joining me.

I really appreciate you taking the time and enjoy Mallorca. Thank you so much for having me. And I enjoyed very much the meeting.

Looking forward to see you soon again. Thank you. Thanks so much for watching our discussion here on Wealthion.

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